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Forums - Politics Discussion - What if Heaven is some sort of trap? Will we still have "Free" will?

What if Heaven is some sort of trap? Will we still have "Free" will?

Most likely, it's not. Lucifer disobeyed god and rebelled while in heaven. Isn't that a sign of free will while in heaven? That also makes you wonder, if you could fall from heaven.



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Everything can be posible, we dont know nothing at all, living on a unknown world, so bothering its pointless but fun at least.



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Aeolus451 said:
What if Heaven is some sort of trap? Will we still have "Free" will?

Most likely, it's not. Lucifer disobeyed god and rebelled while in heaven. Isn't that a sign of free will while in heaven? That also makes you wonder, if you could fall from heaven.

Didnt god sent him to hell after that? If so thats not free will at all.



rioskenny1 said:
Aeolus451 said:
What if Heaven is some sort of trap? Will we still have "Free" will?

Most likely, it's not. Lucifer disobeyed god and rebelled while in heaven. Isn't that a sign of free will while in heaven? That also makes you wonder, if you could fall from heaven.

Didnt god sent him to hell after that? If so thats not free will at all.



Actually, god created hell for him and the one third of all angels that rebelled. It's still free will. It's like telling a child not to get into the cookie jar. The child has the choice of getting into it or not but that kid might have to deal with whatever good or bad that might come from that choice.

Aeolus451 said:
rioskenny1 said:
Aeolus451 said:
What if Heaven is some sort of trap? Will we still have "Free" will?

Most likely, it's not. Lucifer disobeyed god and rebelled while in heaven. Isn't that a sign of free will while in heaven? That also makes you wonder, if you could fall from heaven.

Didnt god sent him to hell after that? If so thats not free will at all.



Actually, god created hell for him and the one third of all angels that rebelled. It's still free will. It's like telling a child not to get into the cookie jar. The child has the choice of getting into it or not but that kid might have to deal with whatever good or bad that might come from that choice.

Well for me it feels more like a political game, I dont like obama too much so i decide to create my own political party and 1/3 of obama followers join me. Obama gets scared that i may take most of his loyal followers so he puts me in jail and everyone else who batrayed him for all eternity, that way he can show the 2/3 of his followers what would happen to them if they stop believing in obama.



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God wants people to love Him. If He wanted slaves, He could have just made us slaves to begin with, with such power. Read the Bible. The truth is there.



TheWPCTraveler said:
Free will is an illusion anyway, so I'm not worried.


There has to be free will to an extent, normally its people who do things wrong who like to believe in the "free will is an illusion" or "there is no free will" beliefs, so they dont have to be held accountable for any wrong doing they have done, so they dont have to worry or think about the consequences of doing things that are wrong.



 

rioskenny1 said:
Aeolus451 said:
What if Heaven is some sort of trap? Will we still have "Free" will?

Most likely, it's not. Lucifer disobeyed god and rebelled while in heaven. Isn't that a sign of free will while in heaven? That also makes you wonder, if you could fall from heaven.

Didnt god sent him to hell after that? If so thats not free will at all.


In the Islamic version of this story we have three main components, Idlis (the devil), the angels, and Adam (PBUH) the first human. In our version of events the devil is not a fallen angel, rather he is the king of the djinn, a race of human-like things which dwelled on earth before we did and made out of fire, the devil made his way up the ranks by devotion to Allah (swt) and earned his place at the top. This symbolises 3 things;

1) He had free will

2) Angels do not have free will

3) God considers us his best creation

When Allah swt creates Adam PBUH he asks all the angels and the devil to bow, all the angels do so immediately, however pride overcomes him and he says he is better than Adam, as he is made out of fire and we of clay. Even after this astounding showing of disobediance in Allah swt's face he asks for mercyand to live until the end of time and is forgiven, however then he swears on gods name that he will wreck the human creation and Adam and all his offspring and lead them away from Allah swt, and this is why he is thrown in hell. Not for having freedom, but by directly being disobediant.



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The_Sony_Girl1 said:
McGilliguts said:
I actually think those are some good questions, whether or not one believes in god(s). The christian God is primarily concerned with obedience - eg the sacrifice of Isaac. He doesn't really give a shit about much else, no human achievement impresses him, not math science or art. Not even virtue matters according to most Christians. You might be virtuous, but if you don't accept Christ as your savior, then sorry but you're fucked. this attitude is even more pronounced in Islam, and the sacrifice of Ismail is a major Muslim holiday. Observe the great throngs of believers bowing and chanting in unison and the message is clear - submission and obedience above all. Yes, God wants slaves.


Virtue doesn't matter, because it's like cleaning clothes with dirty water. It will still be dirty. Tell me, would you forgive someone who raped your partner, killed her, and stole everything from her? Just because that someone was virtous? God might love, but Justice also needs to be done. 

But if he "turns his life over to Christ" and "truly asks for forgiveness from the Lord", and becomes a "virtuous" person (ex. gives to charity, helps the homeless, becomes an all around "good guy"), then he gets eternal bliss and happiness in heaven. You may not forgive this rapist/murderer/thief, but God will. Where's the "justice" in that? That's mercy, which is the suspension of justice.



avais1993 said:
rioskenny1 said:
Aeolus451 said:
What if Heaven is some sort of trap? Will we still have "Free" will?

Most likely, it's not. Lucifer disobeyed god and rebelled while in heaven. Isn't that a sign of free will while in heaven? That also makes you wonder, if you could fall from heaven.

Didnt god sent him to hell after that? If so thats not free will at all.


In the Islamic version of this story we have three main components, Idlis (the devil), the angels, and Adam (PBUH) the first human. In our version of events the devil is not a fallen angel, rather he is the king of the djinn, a race of human-like things which dwelled on earth before we did and made out of fire, the devil made his way up the ranks by devotion to Allah (swt) and earned his place at the top. This symbolises 3 things;

1) He had free will

2) Angels do not have free will

3) God considers us his best creation

When Allah swt creates Adam PBUH he asks all the angels and the devil to bow, all the angels do so immediately, however pride overcomes him and he says he is better than Adam, as he is made out of fire and we of clay. Even after this astounding showing of disobediance in Allah swt's face he asks for mercyand to live until the end of time and is forgiven, however then he swears on gods name that he will wreck the human creation and Adam and all his offspring and lead them away from Allah swt, and this is why he is thrown in hell. Not for having freedom, but by directly being disobediant.



Hmm, that's interesting. I'll have to read up on that later on. I'm sure there's something about free will in heaven in that version. I find that stuff interesting at times. It's why I first bothered reading some of the christian bible.