I remember loving the first couple Tomb Raider games - especially how the difficulty of #2 starts close to the difficulty at the end of #1, merciless for newbs to the series - but #3 didn't hold my interest, and the later games became increasingly lame to me. Then Uncharted came out, and although it didn't have the hardcore exploration it brought back some of them old feels. When Tomb Raider copied from Uncharted for the reboot I was a little depressed that that was necessary, but it was still fun, just not the same TR I loved as a kid.

I now really want to get those top-down games...might even look into TR Anniversary.

Uncharted levels have a good balance of openess vs guiding you in the right direction. I rather not have destination markers and map overlays intrude on immersion. Not every game has to be a variation of Far Cry.
The problem with openworld games is, it takes a lot of effort to make and as such developers feel the need to cram it full with collectibles, crafting, side missions and other distracting crap to make it worthwile. It's fun too, but sucks for pacing.

If you know anything about storytelling and intertwining it with gaming....Making games like Uncharted take a massive amount of talent in all aspects to develop. (at least where western AAA development is concerned) These are the things that matter based on the system set up for Uncharted..which seems to follow in other games.

1) Create a well thought out and well developed character. Make sure the characters actions in game match his/her personality.

2) Allow all gameplay/weapon options match the characters personality.

3) Make sure the overall story is coherent.

4) Make sure his supporting characters are relevant, therefore making his up hill battle worth a damn.

5) Make sure your enemies are smarter than average.


Eidos made a fun and bloody shooting gallery game...not a coherent one, which is why the chick needs a psychiatrist. I don't even know how she survived the first game for the life of me without bleeding out based on the terrible storyline.

When I see threads like these I remember a lot of gamers nowadays are not told enough to remember games like TR Anniversary and TR Legend. So you get this laughable idea that the TR reboot is an Uncharted clone.

At this point, I'm just going to take your criticisms as personal attacks against my girlfriend, Lara Croft.  As such, I'm calling you out!  You and me.  Toe to toe!!

1.  "There's a guy above you.  There's a guy above you." *throws guy off of building*   "There's a guy below you.  There's a guy below you."  That's your boy, Nathan Drake.  Willing to kill a guy he's never met for doing his job just so he can rob a museum with his pal, Flynn.  The street smart pick pocket from Uncharted 3's intro teams up with Sully and kills a million guys--half the time so he can steal something.  It's okay, though.  It's a video game.

Meanwhile, we have the new Lara Croft.  A young lady who was told by her mentors that "She's a Croft" (but she doesn't believe she's "That kind of Croft"...luckily, she is!), is told she has amazing survival instincts, has had experiences climbing mountains, with archery, etc.  When you first play the game, Lara lacks confidence.  She kills a deer to survive and feels great remorse.  She crosses a log bridge and is afraid she won't make it.  After a while, her confidence builds and she's climbing or fighting for her friend's survival and saying to herself, "I can do this.  I can do this."  After she kills her first person, she's told "That had to be hard".  Her reply?  "It's scary how easy it was."  Before the end of the game, she transforms from the girl walking into an ambush yelling, "Please!  You don't have to do this!!"  to the hardened woman yelling, "That's right!  I'm still alive!!  I'll kill you all!" and finally wielding the two trademark handguns Lara is known for.

These are video games.  Don't think for a second that the story of Uncharted, Metal Gear, or Super Mario bros. holds up to a Hollywood movie.  Every attempt so far has been laughed out of the theater.  They do the best for what they are and, in my opinion, Tomb Raider (which I actually just started replaying a few days ago) does a good job.  I'm noticing things during this playthrough that I never noticed during my other playthroughs about how little hints of who Lara really is are laid out.

2.  Agree.  I think Lara's abilities and weapons and her personality match up quite nicely.  So does Nathan Drake....though he only uses guns.

3.  Naughty Dog went on record as saying that they come up with set pieces first and story second.  Explain that whole "Nate on a sinking ship" (stolen from Tomb Raider Underworld, btw) scenario and how that made sense in the narrative to Uncharted 3.  That thing was all over the place and you  know it.  Uncharted 2 did a great job, though.

If you play Tomb Raider from beginning to end (I recommend doing it again), you would see all of the plot points laid out in such a way that they seem negligable during the first playthrough.  Then, during follow up playthroughs you'll see TONS of foreshadowing and little things that point the way that the story is going.  Why people behave the way they do and why Lara does what she does.  It's a much more cerebral experience than the Michael Bay feel of an Uncharted game.

4.  Again, we agree.  Are you sure you're not a Tomb Raider fan?  Lara doing everything she can to survive and save her friends (not all of them make it.  They make their own sacrifices as well....) in a situation where there is absolutely no law and no hope of escape--a situation where she has to become a stronger person or die--well worth a damn!  I'm sure she's going to need therapy after this one.  Glad she didn't just kill a bunch of people to find some treasure.  I would argue that everything that happens to Drake and Sully are their own damn faults.

5.  Please elaborate.  If it's about enemy AI, Tomb Raider is at least on par with Uncharted's.  They call out orders, yell to each other where you are, throw molotov cocktails, flank you, follow you if you run or fall back if you advance.  If it's about their storyline intelligence, they're just a group of guys that got shipwrecked and resorted to savagery (until you meet the natives).  They're as smart as can be expected.  Nowhere near comic book supervillains Talbot and Marlowe.

-What Naughty dog did was make a game where this "average joe" character is the world's greatest serial killer.  He was taken in by Sully (I'd love to see Sully's backstory) and starred in some fun games that were mostly third person shooters.  On the default setting of an Uncharted game, any "Puzzle" solution is given away automatically after about a minute.  It's okay.  Sometimes, it's fun to just play a mindless TPS.  I don't know how Nathan Drake didn't bleed out after being shot in the stomach in Uncharted 2, though.  Instead, he climbed a train (!?) went on to kill a dozen more people in the snow.  I guess it's what one should expect from a relatively terrible storyline, though.  

COME AT ME, BRO!!

While I agree the other characters are amazing on their own right. Lara is still the famous one among them, especially to non-gamer audience since she was played by Angelina Jolie in the film adaptation. Ask anyone about ellie and Bayonetta and they will be like "who?" But ask about lara croft and tomb raider and they'll answer by "Yes." Maybe in the future the other characters will be iconic just like lara croft. I want everyone to know who us ellie and how she's a kick ass!!!