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Wii U beaten by the Dreamcast - what now?

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WolfpackN64 said:
setsunatenshi said:
WolfpackN64 said:
ps4tw said:

Looking at the sales figures, the Dreamcast, a console widely seen as a failure and the downfall of Sega, sold better than the Wii U to date. As Nintendo has the cash assest to survive a failed console, where will they go from here? It seems that they do not want to adapt to the demands of the modern gamer, and their core user base is smaller than ever. This being said, will this force Nintendo's hand out of the console business just as the Dreamcast did to Sega? How can Nintendo repair the publicity damage the Wii U has done to them in the eyes of gamers? 


The Nintendo core base is MUCH larger than Sony and Microsoft's. The Wii U will outsell the Dreamcast no problem and Nintendo's stifness is paying off, profits tripeling this quarter. Carry on.


Excuse me...

 

 

Care to elaborate what would give you such idea?

I'm talking anout real core gamers, not people who trade in their PS3 and all their FIFA games just to buy a PS4 and the new FIFA. Nintendo's games have a high attach rate, higher than some Sony and Microsoft exclusives. Their own software makes them quite a lot of money.

To be clear, I was NOT talking about pure console sales. Nintendo is clearly not in the best position. But it's also not doing bad anymore.

That's quite the outlook you got there... so in 4 generations that Playstation is in the market and the only generation where they weren't #1 was during the time where every casual and their granny bought the Wii to play Wii Sports. And that was with a console that was double the price of what Nintendo put out.

I'm really not sure what you mean by real hardcore, but in my view someone that will early adopt a new console at top price with a nearly empty game library trusting their company of choice will deliver is the hardest of the core gamer. 2 years of Wii U on the market and seems that less than 8 million is the hardcore cap for the big N.

About the attach rate comment, it's hardly surprising Nintendo games have higher rates. 1, they put out less content than Sony, 2 they sell less hardware, 3 there are about 0 good 3rd party games being sold on the Wii U. You pretty much are forced to buy 1st party games as there's a dry, empty desert out there when it comes to 3rd party.

i have nothing to say about the money they may or may not make. i'm not a shareholder



setsunatenshi said:
WolfpackN64 said:
setsunatenshi said:
WolfpackN64 said:
ps4tw said:

Looking at the sales figures, the Dreamcast, a console widely seen as a failure and the downfall of Sega, sold better than the Wii U to date. As Nintendo has the cash assest to survive a failed console, where will they go from here? It seems that they do not want to adapt to the demands of the modern gamer, and their core user base is smaller than ever. This being said, will this force Nintendo's hand out of the console business just as the Dreamcast did to Sega? How can Nintendo repair the publicity damage the Wii U has done to them in the eyes of gamers? 


The Nintendo core base is MUCH larger than Sony and Microsoft's. The Wii U will outsell the Dreamcast no problem and Nintendo's stifness is paying off, profits tripeling this quarter. Carry on.


Excuse me...

 

 

Care to elaborate what would give you such idea?

I'm talking anout real core gamers, not people who trade in their PS3 and all their FIFA games just to buy a PS4 and the new FIFA. Nintendo's games have a high attach rate, higher than some Sony and Microsoft exclusives. Their own software makes them quite a lot of money.

To be clear, I was NOT talking about pure console sales. Nintendo is clearly not in the best position. But it's also not doing bad anymore.

That's quite the outlook you got there... so in 4 generations that Playstation is in the market and the only generation where they weren't #1 was during the time where every casual and their granny bought the Wii to play Wii Sports. And that was with a console that was double the price of what Nintendo put out.

I'm really not sure what you mean by real hardcore, but in my view someone that will early adopt a new console at top price with a nearly empty game library trusting their company of choice will deliver is the hardest of the core gamer. 2 years of Wii U on the market and seems that less than 8 million is the hardcore cap for the big N.

About the attach rate comment, it's hardly surprising Nintendo games have higher rates. 1, they put out less content than Sony, 2 they sell less hardware, 3 there are about 0 good 3rd party games being sold on the Wii U. You pretty much are forced to buy 1st party games as there's a dry, empty desert out there when it comes to 3rd party.

i have nothing to say about the money they may or may not make. i'm not a shareholder

The Wii had a lot of casuals, yes, but those were a different kind of casuals from the PS2 era. The parents and fitness casuals have moved on. The Wii in the end wasn't very profitable anymore. The majority of the console casuals moved back to Sony (not a bad thing in sé). And 1st party software does net you more money then the commisions you get from third parties. But of course, Sony and Microsoft have so many 3rd parties on board and Nintendo so little, it makes for a not too bright financial balance.

The Wii U is now more a console for the Nintendo faithful, the Nintendo core and hardcore. And even though the Wii U is now around 8 million. Being able to bank on prob 10 million at the end of 2015 is not bad for a console with very high 1st party attach rates.

I'm not saying the Wii U is a financial miracle, far from it. I'm saying Nintendo's output for now will net them enough profit to sustain and rebuild some reserves for the generation to come.



WolfpackN64 said:
setsunatenshi said:
WolfpackN64 said:
setsunatenshi said:
WolfpackN64 said:
ps4tw said:

Looking at the sales figures, the Dreamcast, a console widely seen as a failure and the downfall of Sega, sold better than the Wii U to date. As Nintendo has the cash assest to survive a failed console, where will they go from here? It seems that they do not want to adapt to the demands of the modern gamer, and their core user base is smaller than ever. This being said, will this force Nintendo's hand out of the console business just as the Dreamcast did to Sega? How can Nintendo repair the publicity damage the Wii U has done to them in the eyes of gamers? 


The Nintendo core base is MUCH larger than Sony and Microsoft's. The Wii U will outsell the Dreamcast no problem and Nintendo's stifness is paying off, profits tripeling this quarter. Carry on.


Excuse me...

 

 

Care to elaborate what would give you such idea?

I'm talking anout real core gamers, not people who trade in their PS3 and all their FIFA games just to buy a PS4 and the new FIFA. Nintendo's games have a high attach rate, higher than some Sony and Microsoft exclusives. Their own software makes them quite a lot of money.

To be clear, I was NOT talking about pure console sales. Nintendo is clearly not in the best position. But it's also not doing bad anymore.

That's quite the outlook you got there... so in 4 generations that Playstation is in the market and the only generation where they weren't #1 was during the time where every casual and their granny bought the Wii to play Wii Sports. And that was with a console that was double the price of what Nintendo put out.

I'm really not sure what you mean by real hardcore, but in my view someone that will early adopt a new console at top price with a nearly empty game library trusting their company of choice will deliver is the hardest of the core gamer. 2 years of Wii U on the market and seems that less than 8 million is the hardcore cap for the big N.

About the attach rate comment, it's hardly surprising Nintendo games have higher rates. 1, they put out less content than Sony, 2 they sell less hardware, 3 there are about 0 good 3rd party games being sold on the Wii U. You pretty much are forced to buy 1st party games as there's a dry, empty desert out there when it comes to 3rd party.

i have nothing to say about the money they may or may not make. i'm not a shareholder

The Wii had a lot of casuals, yes, but those were a different kind of casuals from the PS2 era. The parents and fitness casuals have moved on. The Wii in the end wasn't very profitable anymore. The majority of the console casuals moved back to Sony (not a bad thing in sé). And 1st party software does net you more money then the commisions you get from third parties. But of course, Sony and Microsoft have so many 3rd parties on board and Nintendo so little, it makes for a not too bright financial balance.

The Wii U is now more a console for the Nintendo faithful, the Nintendo core and hardcore. And even though the Wii U is now around 8 million. Being able to bank on prob 10 million at the end of 2015 is not bad for a console with very high 1st party attach rates.

I'm not saying the Wii U is a financial miracle, far from it. I'm saying Nintendo's output for now will net them enough profit to sustain and rebuild some reserves for the generation to come.

my main question was regarding your statement that the Nintendo core base is 'much higher' than Sony's. I think we can both agree that is absolutely not the case, correct? unless you'd believe the core Sony crowd is under 10M, which would be in odds with the common complain that the whole internet is playstation biased :)

again, regarding the financial situation I never discussed it, I'm glad 10M is enough to consider a console a success, I wish it was the case when Sega was around, I could be playing Shining Force 7 by now :P



Asriel said:
Yeah, I think at this point people asking these kinds of questions just aren't paying that much attention.

With Wii U, they'll aim to profit and sell plenty of software and amiibos. I wouldn't be surprised to see more DLC to help with high profit margins. I wouldn't write them off. The Dreamcast forced Sega out of hardware because Sega had burnt money on the Mega-CD, 32X and Saturn before lurching onto the Dreamcast and losing money on that. Nintendo still have billions in the bank, and while they have had a rough few years financially, they should return to profit this year.

Nintendo have already said their home and handheld console strategy will be different next time around, and they're expanding outside of gaming for the first time in over 30 years. They're not going to throw more money at Wii U in an aggressive attempt to gain marketshare. They'll write it off as a failed experiment and move on.

no.



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Mikmster said:
RolStoppable said:

Nintendo came back from the GC, so yeah... there isn't much to be concerned about.

With a fluke fad ? not strenght of their own merits proven by their incapability to replacate the success agian.    I dont doubt they will find success agian, neither would i doubt ill be as a 3rd party.

 

I agree that releasing another home console as successful as the Wii will be tough, but don't under-estimate Nintendo's record for innovation.  For every Virtual Boy and Wii U failure Nintendo also has a Wii, DS, Game Boy success story.  Also don't forget about Nintendo's Pokemon craze that was beyond huge in the '90's and single-handidly saved the Game Boy.  Innovation doesn't always have to come in the form of a new home console and Nintendo has many different fronts that they can make a comeback from. 

For example, does Nintendo even need to bother developing a new console for televisions or can they start to look at developing hardware that connects to Tablets and Smartphones via a Cloud?  Could selling Smart Phone protector cases that come with circle pads and buttons could prove to be Nintendo's next huge innovation.

Whatever Nintendo does, I seriously hope that they never go 3rd party.  Nintendo is a company that historically carves out a niche for itself through innovation and finds success in that bubble.  Going 3rd party would force Nintendo to play by the same rules as everybody else and I think you would very quickly see them become like Sega and other various Japanese developers that are currently struggling both creatively and financially.



Dreamcast sales-wise was a massive success. Sega pulled it because they were in titanic financial deficits from years of incredibly poor management and the Dreamcast's sales weren't enough to pull them out of it. Being beaten by Dreamcast in sales is seriously no big deal.



 SW-5120-1900-6153

BREAKING NEWS. We have just received an urgent bulletin.

After weeks of rigorous study, top analysts declare that the Wii U is still dead. More on this story as it develops.



Skullwaker said:
naruball said:
Skullwaker said:
I'm second hand embarrassed by some of the posts in this thread. Nintendo should go third party? Nintendo should just drop support for the Wii U and rush out a new console?

...And why is that? What would they have to gain? A loss of consumer respect and profit is all. They need to recoup their losses, do what they can to make this gen as profitable as possible and keep releasing quality title after quality title. That's it.


How  would you feel if someone said the same thing about your post? Obviously everyone thinks they're right because they're using facts. But other people can use different facts to make a completely different point.

Example: What did MS gain from completely abandoning xbox after it underperormed and then rushing to release xb360? 

1. They turned things around. Won US, Uk and so many other countries. 'No one' saw them beating Sony like they did (for almost an entire generation).

2. They made huge profits with live-gold. 

Did it hurt their brand? Would it have been more profitable or a good decision overall to keep supporting xbox?

Look, I'm not saying that Ninty should drop the WiiU, but attacking others for their opinions doesn't seem the best way to have a discussion. 

Did I attack anyone? No. I simply said that I'm embarrased for the way people are responding to this. People can say the same for my posts, I don't mind.

Also, the difference is that the 360 was released 4 years after its predecessor. People are wanting Nintendo to abandon the Wii U now. Just 2 years after its release. And Microsoft was bleeding money from their Xbox division. It was a huge loss to them. They had nowhere to go but up. It's a different story for Nintendo, because they're making a profit now and they have their healthy portable division, not to mention their software sales. Releasing a successor now or anytime in the near future would ruin the way consumers percieve them. It's apples and oranges.

1)Yes you did. If you don't see why, that's your problem. Then again even when you ask bullies why they attack others, they claim they didn't. You're obviously not bullying anyone but you're most certainly attacking the content of their posts and thus the logic that they used. 

2)Abandoning the wiiu now does not mean releasing a successor tomorrow as if it's that simple. A successor would be released at best next November since, you know, it takes some time to create, produce, market, and make some games for it. So, if it's released next November, that would be a 3 year cycle, as opposed to 3.5 that xbox was. Pretty sure that's not apples to oranges ;)

3)You don't know that. Xb360 could have been a massive failure. They took a huge risk that paid off. 

4) How is the "healthy portable division" relevant to a discussion about Wiiu, i.e. homeconsoles? 

The point is that they're not making much of a profit at the moment compared to their wii days. If they release a successor, it may completely fail or it may lead to huge profits (like xb360 and wii did). If they simply want to make a small, healthy profit, they should stick with wiiu. If they want bigger profits, they need to make a drastic change. If it were my company, I'd stick with wiiu and make the profit they're currently making. But the point that people are making about NInty dropping wiiu is not as embarassing as you make it sound and the comparison with xbox is definitely not apples to oranges.



Despite that interesting fact Wii U and Nintendo are in MUCH better shape than the DC and SEGA were at this point.. which is to say the DC already had one foot in the grave and SEGA was mere months away from exiting the hardware business forever.

Plus there are still some big titles to come in 2015 for the Wii U, and the inevitable price drop will spur sales more.



On 2/24/13, MB1025 said:
You know I was always wondering why no one ever used the dollar sign for $ony, but then I realized they have no money so it would be pointless.