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Forums - Sony Discussion - What do yo think will be the hardware specifications of PS5 if it arrives arround 2019-2020?

12tf minimum, 2021, and there will be a slim, and maybe faster PS4 pro before then .



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se7en7thre3 said:
12tf minimum, 2021, and there will be a slim, and maybe faster PS4 pro before then .

Slim for sure. More powerful?! Never.



PS will focus more on CPU this time around. Even with XB1X, they did everything they could to push Jaguar as much as possible, considering it may have to last 8 years or more due to their no more gens plan going forward. I would assume more money will be dedicated to the CPU, RAM, HDD/SSD, with less towards the GPU for PS5.

This makes me think PS5 will stick with 8, x86 cores, most likely Ryzen based, and also because PS4 has 8 cores, so dropping to 4 or 6 would seem like going backwards. 8 cores around 2020 won't seem like a big deal anyway.

I would assume the GPU ends up around 10TF. The XB1X can run some AAA at full 4k with 6TF, so 10TF would be more than enough for a base model, assuming PS5 Pro shows up at some point, and checkerboarding is still an option.

XB1X having 12GB of RAM leads me to believe PS5 will have a min of 16GB. This would probably require 4GB of dedicated separate OS RAM for future proofing, so 20GB total. A 20-24GB pool wouldn't be out of the question either.

As for storage they can't just stick with HDD due to load times, but how much solid state they can squeeze in the budget is really hard to say at this point in time, along with all the new storage tech that keeps popping up and the supply/pricing variations. With the system being fully 4k capable, 2TB of storage should be an absolute min.

If I were PS, I would guess XB "Two" wouldn't show up until 2021, so launching PS5 late 2020 would make sense. Make the system for around $500, and sell it for $499 late 2020. Then drop the price to $399 late 2021. This way if XB "Two" launches at $499, PS5 has a $100 price advantage just like Pro has. If XB tries to hit the magic $399 price point, it ends up the same price as PS5, so more than likely it's specs aren't much better either, so PS has little to worry about other than games.

PS5 using the success of the PS4 and getting an entire year lead makes the most sense to me. The only downside to this I could see, would be if XB decides to create a $500-$600 console, and sells it for around $399. PS really has no other option than to fight that with games or it's own subsidy at that point though, or launch a Pro model sooner than later.

While a traditional single console is the likely outcome, I also think it's possible to see a $399 PS5 and $599 Pro at launch. This way, XB "Two" at best could only end up on the cheaper end of the scale at $399 as well. Launching at $499 would not be good as PS5 would have a cheaper and more capable system surrounding it. Launching at $599 would make it much more niche like the XB1X is now, and would direct many XB customers towards the much cheaper XB1X at $299 at that time. A $299 XB1X isn't exactly good news for a $399 PS5 either, but if XB gamers prefer higher specs, PS5 would have that covered on both fronts.

The reason I can see this happening, is because I don't see PS4 Pro being able to play PS5 games, yet if the XB1X can play XB"Two" games, then PS would only have one console choice at $399, while XB would have two choices at $299 and $499. I could see this scenario being a bit of a problem for PS5 until the Pro released 2 or 3 years down the road. PS may have learned their PS3 lesson, but I think this would work considering they would have their affordable $399 version, so the $599 Pro model would be their 1/5th or possibly 2/5th sales over the gen again.

The other option is to launch the PS5 late 2019 with a two year head start, and follow up XB"Two" in 2021 with a stronger PS5 Pro in 2022.



Errorist76 said:
se7en7thre3 said:
12tf minimum, 2021, and there will be a slim, and maybe faster PS4 pro before then .

Slim for sure. More powerful?! Never.

in the same vein as XB1s, so Im suggesting a pro slim would flirt with 5 tf.



se7en7thre3 said:
Errorist76 said:

Slim for sure. More powerful?! Never.

in the same vein as XB1s, so Im suggesting a pro slim would flirt with 5 tf.

Never really thought about that. With all of the scalability being implemented into the PSOS and development tools, they could definitly upclock the CPU and GPU in the Super Slim and the Pro Slim. Another new possibility enters the mix.



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EricHiggin said: 

I would assume the GPU ends up around 10TF. The XB1X can run some AAA at full 4k with 6TF, so 10TF would be more than enough for a base model, assuming PS5 Pro shows up at some point, and checkerboarding is still an option.

Next gen games will ask a lot more of consoles than what current gen games are asking of consoles. Its like you are saying, the PS3 ran some games at 1080p with a 185GF GPU so basically 400GF should be enough. 10TF will be decent, but there is no reason for them to go with it. To do so they literally have to go out of their way to make a weaker console than they could make by default when just leveraging the benefits of the available tech at the time.

EricHiggin said: 

XB1X having 12GB of RAM leads me to believe PS5 will have a min of 16GB. This would probably require 4GB of dedicated separate OS RAM for future proofing, so 20GB total. A 20-24GB pool wouldn't be out of the question either.

I've been thinking about this.... say an 8Gb (2GB) module of GDDR6 Ram in 2020 costs around $9 (GDDR5 costs around $6.50 for 1GB right now). They would need $72 for 16GB of GDDR6 Ram. And the cost of 4GB of GDDR6 ram would be around $18. Now the question, would it be better (cheaper and less complicated) to just pay the $18 for the extra Ram so they end up with 20GB of GGDDR6 (which also has the benefit of allowing them also hit a higher peak memory bandwidth) or is opting for 16GB GDDR6 and 4GB of a separate type of Ram just for the OS the better option? I'm beginning to think the former is the way to go.

EricHiggin said: 

As for storage they can't just stick with HDD due to load times, but how much solid state they can squeeze in the budget is really hard to say at this point in time, along with all the new storage tech that keeps popping up and the supply/pricing variations. With the system being fully 4k capable, 2TB of storage should be an absolute min.

I have also been giving this a lot of thought too. With consoles, Capacity will always trump performance when it comes to storage. This makes me think all my dreams of an M.2 drive won't even happen. I don't even see us getting an SSD. However, I feel that at least the PS5 will be ready to take full advantage of the Sata 3 interface this time around. And the consoles will instead just come shipped with the biggest mechanical drives they can throw in there at an affordable price. So 1 or 2TB. 

But there is an upside to this tho, I feel every console will come a 64-128GB nand flash "cache" drive  soldered directly onto the board. And capable of feeding data to the system at over 2GB/s. This way, every dev building for the console knows their is a drive like that to make the most of. 

EricHiggin said: 


While a traditional single console is the likely outcome, I also think it's possible to see a $399 PS5 and $599 Pro at launch. This way, XB "Two" at best could only end up on the cheaper end of the scale at $399 as well. Launching at $499 would not be good as PS5 would have a cheaper and more capable system surrounding it. Launching at $599 would make it much more niche like the XB1X is now, and would direct many XB customers towards the much cheaper XB1X at $299 at that time. A $299 XB1X isn't exactly good news for a $399 PS5 either, but if XB gamers prefer higher specs, PS5 would have that covered on both fronts.

The reason I can see this happening, is because I don't see PS4 Pro being able to play PS5 games, yet if the XB1X can play XB"Two" games, then PS would only have one console choice at $399, while XB would have two choices at $299 and $499. I could see this scenario being a bit of a problem for PS5 until the Pro released 2 or 3 years down the road. PS may have learned their PS3 lesson, but I think this would work considering they would have their affordable $399 version, so the $599 Pro model would be their 1/5th or possibly 2/5th sales over the gen again.

Very bad idea. How many times did you see any publication lead with the PS3 is $499!!!!!

Everyone will just treat the more expensive console as if its the default console. 



KBG29 said: 
se7en7thre3 said: 

in the same vein as XB1s, so Im suggesting a pro slim would flirt with 5 tf.

Never really thought about that. With all of the scalability being implemented into the PSOS and development tools, they could definitly upclock the CPU and GPU in the Super Slim and the Pro Slim. Another new possibility enters the mix.

Sony would never alienate their early buyers like that.



CrazyGPU said:
Trumpstyle said:

I expect most games pushing graphics on the next-gen go 4k checkerboard rendering. So 4k CB with 30fps will give us a decent upgrade, but yes lower graphics improvement than ps4 gave us.

Why would a console that probably would be 2 times more powerfull than ps4 pro run 4k checkboard 30 fps. That would be almost like native 2k. PS4 pro can reach native 2k now  or 4k chb. And don´t tell me that they are going to make better 2k (4k checkboard)graphics. They would improve native resolution instead to medium quality native 4k, is more marketable. Also as more TVs sold are 4k, PS5 will run natively at the same resolution and be less blurry if the amount of memory is enough.

Dude, Ps4 pro and xbox one X are already marketed as 4k consoles despite they are really not.

I believe it's much better path to push graphics than resolution. An example is the game Mass effect: andromeda, I played it both on my ps4 pro and PC. To my surprise 1080p with 1.25x resolution scaling and TAA gave a better image quality then 1800p checkerboard rendering that ps4 pro uses. And I played with high settings which it's a pretty big improvement in graphics.

Ps4 pro should be able to handle those settings that I played on my PC with an average 40 fps but instead I got a resolution bump. Which was much worse.

So yes games will probably run 1440p or 4k CB to push graphics.

Last edited by Trumpstyle - on 23 February 2018

6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

globalisateur said:
Trumpstyle said:

Seems I got the spec with the lowest performance in my Ps5 prediction. I believe I'm right and a lot of people here will be disappointed in ps5.

8/8 core ryzen cpu with 2,6 ghz clock speed (no extra threads), 9 TF navi gpu, 16 gb gddr6 (with 448 GB/s bandwidth) and a 2 TB laptop mechanical hard drive (140 mb/s read speed). These are my specs for Ps5.

Keep in mind power consumption and cost when making the prediction. The Gpu need to draw about 120W and the CPU about 15-20W and the rest about 10W. Otherwise they need more expensive cooling system like the Xbox one X is using and it's very unlikely Sony will go that route.

On 7nm transistor technology it's very unlikely we see a GPU with more than 10 TF because then power consumption will go above 120W, Sony will likely just double the gpu cores (compared to the ps4 pro) with some clock speed increase which give 9 TF. On memory bandwidth I expect sony not to go with the fastest GDDR6 memory speed because of cost and power consumption. And on Cpu a 8/8 Core ryzen with 2,6 Ghz clock speed should pull about 15-20W on 7nm.

I don't expect Sony to do anything fancy with the Ps5, like an additional ddr4 to run the OS, a flash drive to give shorter loading times and more RAM or some kind of HBM+DDR4 combo. This is because of Cost, need to keep it down.


PS4 had 256Mb of DDR3 dedicated for the OS. It worked so well that they increased the amount to 1GB in the Pro. It's cheap and add memory for the OS, usually OS don't need fast memory.

I don't see how PS5 could not have DDR3 or DDR4 for the OS. The only question is how much. I'd say 4GB minimum.

Ps4 pro only added 1gb of ddr3 because it was the cheapest solution. They needed a small amount of ram increase to run the resolution bump on the ps4 pro. Why original ps4 uses 256mb ddr3 I don't know but probably of similiar problem.

But I do believe xbox two will use 4gb of ddr4 to run their OS(operating system). I will probably post my Xbox two prediction just for fun :). I might be the first person to do so as I haven't seen a single prediction on Xbox two either here, resetera or beyond forum.



6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

Intrinsic said:
 

Trumpstyle said:

I'm not ignoring xbox one x. Xbox one x proves my point. Microsoft had to go with a bigger chip and more expensive cooling to get those extra Flops. So if we assume 7nm will be able to double the Flops with same power consumption we will get 12 TF. But this require a bigger chip and more expensive cooling.

How much improvement we will get from 7nm compared to 16nm we don't know exactly. TSMC (The chip manufacturer) has said 7nm brings about 60% power savings. But this is probably a bit optimistic.

And I don't expect sony to go that route microsoft went with xbox one x. They wanna keep the power consumption at the same level and keep cost down.

About Amd next architecture Navi, I'm not expecting much at all. Polaris was bad, Vega was a disaster and we already hearing Navi will be worst than Vega so don't expect much from Navi.

No... you are looking at this from some strange perspective that I can't understand. Doesn't make sense.....

The OG XB1 APU had a chip size (with all of its 1.2TF GPU) of 368mm sq. The 16nm XB1X (with a 6TF GPU) has a chip size of 360mm sq. Its not only smaller than the OG XB1 but its drawing less power and generating less heat. The reason MS went with a more expensive cooling solution is cause they wanted to go for that super slim form factor. Hence its even smaller than the OG XB1 and the PS4pro.

If going from 16nm in the XB1x to 7nm in say the PS5, in the same 360mm sq area scenario above, hitting 12TF would be a walk in the park, and that is not even accounting for running at a higher clock than what the XB1X clock currrently is. And they dont have to go with better cooling. They can just have a bigger console (which is actually a form of better cooling) remember the XB1X is smaller than the PS4pro. 

In truth, they will have room even after doubling the GPU from 44 computes units as found in the XB1X to 88CUs to also increase clock speeds by around 15-20% while still all being more thermally efficient than the XB1X.  And what I have just said already guarantees well more than 12TF and they haven't even had to start getting creative yet. 

I really don't know how else to say all this to you anymore. 

Okey let's just disagree. I just expect 7nm will bring about twice the TF compared to 16nm. And in my prediction I believe Sony will go similiar strategy they went with ps4 and ps4 pro. A console that has a pretty small box, consume 150w for the entire system and is pretty cheap to produce.

So that means twice the compute units, 72. That is slightly higher clocked, let's say about 1050 mhz. This gives about 9,6 TF so a bit higher that I predicted.

Edit:

About xbox one die size, I don't know why it's relevent. Reason for the big die size was because microsoft went for Esram, without it the die size would probably be about 300mm2

Last edited by Trumpstyle - on 23 February 2018

6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!