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I have a question comparing the 7th gen (360/PS3) to the 8th gen (X1/PS4)

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First thread! Woo!

Anyway... I have a question regarding the start of the 7th as compared to that of the 8th. Did the 7th gen start off as bad as the 8th has been? I ask this because I've only been intently paying this much attention to the industry as a whole fairly recently, as I honestly just didn't care for it as a whole as much outside of my bubble of Halo, Sonic, Kingdom Hearts, and Nintendo, and I'm honestly curious, as, at least in my opinion, this gen is off to a bad start, and considering how well the One and PS4 are selling, I wanted to know if it's just bad because I don't know any better, or if it is just bad.

Here's my reasoning for why I'm not too impressed with this gen. 2 of the 3 consoles were executed in the worst possible way from launch. The One presented a wrong foot forward from the very beginning, from it's ideas of always online and required Kinect, to it's equally horrific marketing. Some of its ideas were good ones, several of which likely be standard in future consoles, but it tried too much too quickly, and its ideas were miscommunicated and drowned out by all of the bad. Simply put, when people buy a games console, they buy it primarily for games, not multimedia. If it launched as it as now, Kinect optional, disc required, and marketing focused on games, it would be doing at least as well as the PS4, maybe even better.

Ah, Nintendo, how much I simultaneously love and hate you. I honestly and adamantly believe the Wii U could have been stealing the show this generation... if it released directly up against the PS4 and One... or maybe even this year. As backwards as that sounds, hear me out. The biggest two problems with the Wii U at launch was power and games. So much could have been accomplished with an extra year or two of development. They would have had extra time to make their console closer to, or if released this year, stronger than the One or the PS4. Especially if released this year, they would have had time to look and listen to what Microsoft and Sony were doing, and learn fron them what to push and what not to. They could have modernized their online infrastructure to closer match PSN and Xbox Live. And they could still keep the GamePad and Miiverse to differenciate their console even further, make the One and PS4 look boring in comparison. Finally the games. The One has one true exclusive and the PS4 two. The Wii U had New Super U, 3D World, Pikmin 3, Wind Waker HD, and New Super Luigi U (among others) in its first year. Mario Kart 8, Donkey Kong, Bayonetta 2, Hyrule Warriors, and Smash in its second. Imagine having all of that at or at least promised from launch, in addition to the titles releasing next year. They would also have third party support from the getgo like the Wii U did at launch, so it would also be getting stuff like CoD and AC. It would be hard to justify not owning it. 

Finally the PS4, The winner from the getgo because they were smart enough to do nothing. They capitalized on the horrific ordeal that was the One's reveal, advertised it as a game machine first and foremost, and is currently dominating this gen despite barely having anything that can't run on a One, 360, or PS3. Absolute geniuses, Sony's gaming division. However, even they are not without hardware faults. The Vita, like the One and Wii U was a good idea, horribly executed. They expected a $250-$300 handheld to sell in this day in this day and age, against smartphones and the $170 3DS, on top of needing to buying overpriced proprietary memory sticks. Get real. This is not helped by the fact that, unlike Nintendo, who sees the Wii U floundering and is doing all it can to fix it, Sony is perfectly intent on letting the Vita be a haven for indies you can mostly elsewhere and obscure JRPGS. They have all but given up on the poor thing.

And for my final argument, the games. Each and every title that was supposed to be the herald for the new gen has fallen flat on its face in some way shape or form. Rise, Watch Dogs, Destiny, and Assassin's Creed Unity were generally all agreed upon to be disappointing, in addition to the fact that Watch Dogs and Destiny can run on 8 year old machines. Halo: The Master Chief Collection, in addition to consisting of titles that can all be played on 360 (yea, I know, no online for 1 and 2, but still the campaign for them can be played, as can local multiplayer) is literally broken at launch. LittleBigPlanet 3, in addition to being playable on PS3, is littered with bugs. DriveClub's multiplayer is STILL broken. Several games, like Batman, Evolve, and The Order have been delayed, some, like Watch Dogs, several times. 

I got a 3DS Christmas 2011 for Kart, 3D Land, Zelda, and the promise of Kingdom Hearts and Luigi's Mansion. I got a Wii U 2013 for Wind Waker HD, 3D World, and the promise of Kart, Smash, and Bayo 2. I was planning on getting a One this year for Halo: MCC, AC: Unity, and the promise of Evolve, Batman, The Witcher 3, Halo 5, Kingdom Hearts III, and Final Fantasy XV. but after seeing how broken Halo is and how underwhelming Unity is, I think I'll wait until more titles I want come out for it. 

So, am I completely wrong and the 8th gen is off to a wonderful start? Did the 7th gen start off just as bad, or is this only growing pains for this gen? Please let me know.



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Consoles always have weak starts gamewise, but now in November things got right on the track, it was a good first year for the PS4 and XBO.

But two things here: I doubt the XBO would be selling as well as the PS4 is doing now in any scenario, PS4 sucess is only rivaled by the Wii madness. Of course they could be having a fight, but not in this level the PS4 is now.

And the other thing is, stop saying PS4 did nothing and have no games, I always see people saying this and saying the XBO is better right now, and it's not true at all.

The ONLY game exclusively on XBO this year is Sunset Overdrive, PS4 have Infamous and Driveclub.
Both have one remaster.
PS4 have Little big planet 3 as cross gen and XBO have Forza horizon 2 and Titanfall (also on PC).

It's the exact same amount of games and PS4 is the one with more games only available to play there, and both are first party. (4-2 in first party to PS4 too). And with 2 other big exclusives coming to PS4 early next year.

How is Sony is doing nothing? If there is one doing it is Microsoft, so PLEASE stop with this.



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In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

I take it, this is really about the quality of games, even though you touch a bit on other subjects too.

The outcome of the seventh generation carried over to the eighth generation, so overhyped games that require big patches have become the norm. The industry got away with that, so there was no reason why they should change. Early indicators (i.e. sales) of the eighth gen suggest that the industry will get away with even sloppier work.

The seventh generation (up until November 2007, the corresponding timeframe) had its fair share of duds like Assassin's Creed, but it also had legitimate hits with new IPs like Gears of War and Uncharted, and the rise of Call of Duty with its fourth game (Modern Warfare) which was widely regarded as a great game. Nintendo delivered back then and they are the only ones who could deliver in the first year for gen 8, even moreso when you count their second year too (which should be counted, because the 360's headstart is just as valid).

Overall you are right, the eighth gen doesn't compare favorably to the seventh gen. Things are going to get better for sure though, although that's first and foremost because the bar has been set so low.



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Megaoverlord12 said:

First thread! Woo!

Anyway... I have a question regarding the start of the 7th as compared to that of the 8th. Did the 7th gen start off as bad as the 8th has been? I ask this because I've only been intently paying this much attention to the industry as a whole fairly recently, as I honestly just didn't care for it as a whole as much outside of my bubble of Halo, Sonic, Kingdom Hearts, and Nintendo, and I'm honestly curious, as, at least in my opinion, this gen is off to a bad start, and considering how well the One and PS4 are selling, I wanted to know if it's just bad because I don't know any better, or if it is just bad.

Here's my reasoning for why I'm not too impressed with this gen. 2 of the 3 consoles were executed in the worst possible way from launch. The One presented a wrong foot forward from the very beginning, from it's ideas of always online and required Kinect, to it's equally horrific marketing. Some of its ideas were good ones, several of which likely be standard in future consoles, but it tried too much too quickly, and its ideas were miscommunicated and drowned out by all of the bad. Simply put, when people buy a games console, they buy it primarily for games, not multimedia. If it launched as it as now, Kinect optional, disc required, and marketing focused on games, it would be doing at least as well as the PS4, maybe even better.

Ah, Nintendo, how much I simultaneously love and hate you. I honestly and adamantly believe the Wii U could have been stealing the show this generation... if it released directly up against the PS4 and One... or maybe even this year. As backwards as that sounds, hear me out. The biggest two problems with the Wii U at launch was power and games. So much could have been accomplished with an extra year or two of development. They would have had extra time to make their console closer to, or if released this year, stronger than the One or the PS4. Especially if released this year, they would have had time to look and listen to what Microsoft and Sony were doing, and learn fron them what to push and what not to. They could have modernized their online infrastructure to closer match PSN and Xbox Live. And they could still keep the GamePad and Miiverse to differenciate their console even further, make the One and PS4 look boring in comparison. Finally the games. The One has one true exclusive and the PS4 two. The Wii U had New Super U, 3D World, Pikmin 3, Wind Waker HD, and New Super Luigi U (among others) in its first year. Mario Kart 8, Donkey Kong, Bayonetta 2, Hyrule Warriors, and Smash in its second. Imagine having all of that at or at least promised from launch, in addition to the titles releasing next year. They would also have third party support from the getgo like the Wii U did at launch, so it would also be getting stuff like CoD and AC. It would be hard to justify not owning it. 

Finally the PS4, The winner from the getgo because they were smart enough to do nothing. They capitalized on the horrific ordeal that was the One's reveal, advertised it as a game machine first and foremost, and is currently dominating this gen despite barely having anything that can't run on a One, 360, or PS3. Absolute geniuses, Sony's gaming division. However, even they are not without hardware faults. The Vita, like the One and Wii U was a good idea, horribly executed. They expected a $250-$300 handheld to sell in this day in this day and age, against smartphones and the $170 3DS, on top of needing to buying overpriced proprietary memory sticks. Get real. This is not helped by the fact that, unlike Nintendo, who sees the Wii U floundering and is doing all it can to fix it, Sony is perfectly intent on letting the Vita be a haven for indies you can mostly elsewhere and obscure JRPGS. They have all but given up on the poor thing.

And for my final argument, the games. Each and every title that was supposed to be the herald for the new gen has fallen flat on its face in some way shape or form. Rise, Watch Dogs, Destiny, and Assassin's Creed Unity were generally all agreed upon to be disappointing, in addition to the fact that Watch Dogs and Destiny can run on 8 year old machines. Halo: The Master Chief Collection, in addition to consisting of titles that can all be played on 360 (yea, I know, no online for 1 and 2, but still the campaign for them can be played, as can local multiplayer) is literally broken at launch. LittleBigPlanet 3, in addition to being playable on PS3, is littered with bugs. DriveClub's multiplayer is STILL broken. Several games, like Batman, Evolve, and The Order have been delayed, some, like Watch Dogs, several times. 

I got a 3DS Christmas 2011 for Kart, 3D Land, Zelda, and the promise of Kingdom Hearts and Luigi's Mansion. I got a Wii U 2013 for Wind Waker HD, 3D World, and the promise of Kart, Smash, and Bayo 2. I was planning on getting a One this year for Halo: MCC, AC: Unity, and the promise of Evolve, Batman, The Witcher 3, Halo 5, Kingdom Hearts III, and Final Fantasy XV. but after seeing how broken Halo is and how underwhelming Unity is, I think I'll wait until more titles I want come out for it. 

So, am I completely wrong and the 8th gen is off to a wonderful start? Did the 7th gen start off just as bad, or is this only growing pains for this gen? Please let me know.

Last gen was pretty bad too. It was Nintendo who had the flawless execution, but both MS and Sony made huge mistakes.

Sony's Hubris had caused them to launch a $600 console, despite delaying the release of most of their anticipated franchises. During that period, people had to rely on inferior multiplats and then received some high profile disappointments (i.e. Lair/Haze)

Meanwhile, MS launched early, launched cheaper, had way more games, and seemed poised to dominate... but then the obscene failure rate of early 360's severely damaged consumer confidence. MS went out of their way to make sure people were taken care of, but the damage was already done.

So the Wii sold like hotcakes while the 2 HD consoles did damage control. 



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Dunno about the first year, but I got the Xbox 360 during its second year, and I think it was a lot better than this gen so far. It was a much bigger jump from PS2/Xbox to 360 and there were a decent amount of games. Although, that was 2nd year so we've still got that to come

As for PS3 and Wii, didn't get them until 2011 and 2012 respectively so I've no idea what they were like early in the gen



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Yes, there are still pretty much crossgen-games which people also could play on their PS360, but still they are buying lots of new consoles to play the same games, they could buy for their old consoles.
If you are really looking for exclusive current gen games, then you can quickly see there is barely any game which is really worth being bought in my opinion. And still the consoles sell tons of units.
Gamewise its on PS4 and XBone pretty bad when taking away all last-gen ports and remasters and cross-gen games. And when you then also take away multi-games and really only pay attention on exclusives, then you will even see less worth buying. So when you just concentrate on games you ONLY can play on the current gen Plattforms PS4/XBone and can NOT play on PS360, it is very very sad seeing such sales numbers.
I neither have XBone nor PS4 ... for me the only interesting game for XBone at the moment is Killer Instinct (but only if it somewhen is completed), while the PS4 has nothing so far for me - maybe Infamous.
When looking at Nintendo its quite different ... but no one wants to hear this, so i just wont say anything. ;)

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BraLoD said:
Consoles always have weak starts gamewise, but now in November things gof rigjt on the track, it was a good first year for the PS4 and XBO.

But two things here: I doubt the XBO would be selling as well as the PS4 is doing now in any scenario, PS4 sucess is only rivaled by the Wii madness. Of course they could be having a fight, but not in this level the PS4 is now.

And the other thing is, stop saying PS4 did nothing and have no games, I always see people saying this and saying the XBO is better right now, and it's not true at all.

The ONLY game exclusively on XBO this year is Sunset Overdrive, PS4 have Infamous and Driveclub.
Both have one remaster.
PS4 have Little big planet 3 as cross gen and XBO have Forza horizon 2 and Titanfall (also on PC).

It's the exact same amount of games and PS4 is the one with more games only available to play there, and both are first party. (4-2 in first party to PS4 too). And with 2 other big exclusives coming to PS4 early next year.

How is Sony is doing nothing? If there is one doing it is Microsoft, so PLEASE stop with thos.

and even then you still forgot to mention that the PS4 had other japanese exclusives like Guilty Gear Xrd, Akiba Street, Samurai Warriors 4 and other games like Omega Quintet (although the last one didnt released outside of japan this year, BUT will be released on the west on 2015).

People saying that the PS4 has no games and doesnt stand a chance against the X1 dont know what exclusive games the PS4 actually has...

so basically the PS4 had Infamous Second Son, Infamous First Light (sold as a separete game), Little Big Planet 3, DriveClub, MLB 14 the Show, The Last of Us Remastered, Samurai Warriors 4, Guilty Gear Xrd, Akiba Street and Omega Quintet. MOST of them are cross gen, BUT unlike the X1 NONE were available on PC

plus a LOT of the X1 "exclusive" games werent exclusive at all since they either got a PC port, a PS4 port or where available to the PC since day 1, im looking a you TitanFall, Ryse, Dead Rising and Plants VS Zombies...



estebxx said:
BraLoD said:
Consoles always have weak starts gamewise, but now in November things gof rigjt on the track, it was a good first year for the PS4 and XBO.

But two things here: I doubt the XBO would be selling as well as the PS4 is doing now in any scenario, PS4 sucess is only rivaled by the Wii madness. Of course they could be having a fight, but not in this level the PS4 is now.

And the other thing is, stop saying PS4 did nothing and have no games, I always see people saying this and saying the XBO is better right now, and it's not true at all.

The ONLY game exclusively on XBO this year is Sunset Overdrive, PS4 have Infamous and Driveclub.
Both have one remaster.
PS4 have Little big planet 3 as cross gen and XBO have Forza horizon 2 and Titanfall (also on PC).

It's the exact same amount of games and PS4 is the one with more games only available to play there, and both are first party. (4-2 in first party to PS4 too). And with 2 other big exclusives coming to PS4 early next year.

How is Sony is doing nothing? If there is one doing it is Microsoft, so PLEASE stop with thos.

and even then you still forgot to mention that the PS4 had other japanese exclusives like Guilty Gear Xrd, Akiba Street, Samurai Warriors 4 and other games like Omega Quintet (although the last one didnt released outside of japan this year, BUT will be released on the west on 2015).

People saying that the PS4 has no games and doesnt stand a chance against the X1 dont know what exclusive games the PS4 actually has...

so basically the PS4 had Infamous Second Son, Infamous First Light (sold as a separete game), Little Big Planet 3, DriveClub, MLB 14 the Show, The Last of Us Remastered, Samurai Warriors 4, Guilty Gear Xrd, Akiba Street and Omega Quintet. MOST of them being PS4 exclusives and some being cross gen, BUT unlike the X1 NONE were available on PC

plus a LOT of the X1 "exclusive" games werent exclusive at all since they either got a PC port, a PS4 port or where available to the PC since day 1, im looking a you TitanFall, Ryse, Dead Rising and Plants VS Zombies...


Actually I did it on purpose so people won't say it's "weird niche japanese games" that make my point.



BraLoD said:

Actually I did it on purpose so people won't say it's "weird niche japanese games" that make my point

i understand and its sad, because it shows how much people wanna neglect some of the PS4 exclusives, at some point the soul series was a niche game as well heck all of the big JRPGS used to be "niche" games at some point, from the Tales series to FF.