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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Miyamoto: 'What can games learn from film? Nothing'

Zekkyou said:

A surprisingly small minded view coming from someone so creative.

Gaming is an expansion medium for entertainment; there's room for all kinds of games. Some people enjoy games like Heavy Rain that try to immerse them in a story. Some just want something like Mario, LBP or Viva Pinata that they can just jump into and enjoy. Others want games like MGS or TLOU, that have a bit of both.

As long as it's something people enjoy, it's worth making. I don't have much time for those that believe the world should warp itself to be exactly to their liking.


Also I will add, everything has something to be learned off of it, even if it is not do what they did or go the opposite direction.  I thought Mario was made to look like Ron Jeremy, I thought I read something like this.  Could be complete bull.



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t3mporary_126 said:
It makes me wonder how the story is even made in Pikmin orMario 3D World. With Miyamoto's focus on gameplay first and story as an after thought, i still found the narrative and cutscenes in 3D World and all Pikmin games pretty well made. I especially love 3D World's intro and credits cutscene. There's a potential Tom and Jerry series there.


I'm pretty sure someone put it when Miya didn't notice. I mean, he destroyed Paper Mario Sticker Star or so telling us that nobody liked the story. Anyway, by the looks, PPSS sucks against TTYD.



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I completely agree with Miyamoto on the differences between video games and movies, two mediums that are miles apart in narrative structure, in spite of the video game industry's desire to merge the two.

Here's what I wrote about this subject early last year: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5094029

Simply put, despite any aesthetic similarities, video games, by definition, can never obtain the same level of, for lack of a better word, immutability, of movies, or novels and symphonies, for that matter. Games are determined by others' interaction with them; the game designer and the game player combine to create an interesting set of expectations and experiences. With movies, there is no player, there are only viewers. The movie designer's product is, again, immutable. It is art in its purest form.

Video games, conversely, are interactive art. Their greatness comes from the way in which others interact with and, subsequently, change them. They are built around rules, mechanics, challenges, and goals. Those games that abandon those rules, goals, and measurements for victory cease to become games; they become mere representations of a movie, or a story, or a play, existing in a no man's land, neither game nor movie.

So, again, I agree with Miyamoto. When video games stray too far into the realm of cinema, they suffer.



Skidmore said:
Xxain said:

You last sentence is exactly what hes against!!!!!. That is why he doesnt support the narrative focus of current industry. 

I totally back-up him when the game focus entirely on that, and forget about the core mechanics, but Miyamoto is very strict on that, sometimes that may limit the output of new IPs, I understand that this may keep the high quality of Nintendo games, but they need to take more risks at times.


What? How would lack of interest in narrative driven games limit new IP output? New Ip idea is not formed from new narrative idea, but game design idea.



Well, I tend to agree with him. Every game I played that was heavy on "cinematic experiences" sucked when it came to gameplay. But that's the tread now, so when in Rome...



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Pavolink said:
t3mporary_126 said:
It makes me wonder how the story is even made in Pikmin orMario 3D World. With Miyamoto's focus on gameplay first and story as an after thought, i still found the narrative and cutscenes in 3D World and all Pikmin games pretty well made. I especially love 3D World's intro and credits cutscene. There's a potential Tom and Jerry series there.


I'm pretty sure someone put it when Miya didn't notice. I mean, he destroyed Paper Mario Sticker Star or so telling us that nobody liked the story. Anyway, by the looks, PPSS sucks against TTYD.


Lol probably. 

But this is why I don't agree with Miyamoto's comment. Those cutscenes were probably made after the game was finished so it didn't even impede game play experience at all. If anything, it allowed the viewer to be even more immersed to the game world by seeing the personality of the characters you interact with in the game.



Here's a point that I think is in the same vein as Miyamoto's. Watch a trailer for pretty much any "AAA" Western game released in the past few years. Notice that it could just as well be a movie trailer as a game trailer. Therein lies a large part of the reason why I hate Western developers in general.



Skidmore said:

He clearly stated that never thought of a game as means of narrative, it's his point, but as the lead designer of Nintendo, he influence all of their games. The narrative in TLOU, the story, is the charm of that game, the gameplay was just an refined and slower uncharted, get the narrative out of it, and the game could suck.


Yeah, and I don't see a problem with that. That is his personal philosophy. To my knowledge, he never said that narrative should be abolished from games, he just said that the experience as a whole is more important and gameplay shouldn't be sacrificed for story.

I think we also need to keep in mind that this was all translated, so it is possible that he put things a little more artfully in Japanese.



Leaving Pokemon and several Mario games aside:

I'd like to take what Miyamoto is saying in another direction. He believes the experience of a game should be the focal point. He finds that the story by itself would be boring without the experience to back it up. However, a narrative is a bit different. TLOU for instance has an engaging narrative, but regarding a good number of the best films, they don't require that. Many of the best films focus more on the dialogue, acting and character development and leave an intertwining narrative aside.

For video games, an engaging narrative is almost completely essential in order for a story to work well because you are playing a video game. You want to be able to travel to different places and experience a variety of things happening.

Resevoir dogs for instance really only takes place in one area though with flashbacks happening, so the narrative isn't all that and a bag of chips. The dialogue, characters and spots in the movie are extremely entertaining though.

If a video game only took place in a single area throughout the entire game, chances are it would be boring. And if a game puts all of what it offers only into story, but without an overarching narrative to progress it, then it would also be boring.

If it also has good gameplay, then good for it. However, unless the gameplay is incredibly engaging, taking away the narrative even with good dialogue and character development would be fatal to the level it once was.



Lube Me Up

The industry is full of people who embrace these "story-driven" games, so of course his comment is going to be controversial on message boards. Don't think you're special for disagreeing with Miyamoto; You're run of the mill. He probably says these things knowing full well it's going to upset people. The fact that he even has to comment on this in the first place means story driven games have become popular, which means he knows he's "attacking" something a lot of people love.


He has free rights to express negative opinions of something popular. Just because he's popular himself doesn't take away this right, just because you want to keep imagining Miyamoto as some higher being who could never say anything you actually dislike.