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Forums - General Discussion - I don't see how humans can lose to zombies.

NiKKoM said:
bugrimmar said:

I think you're underestimating the firepower that our weapons can do.

A tank shell won't just pop a limb or two. It will completely destroy a body and send its parts in 50 different places. Have you seen how big a tank shell is? A jet with a 100 ton payload will not just cause shrapnel. It will freaking disintegrate whole populations with a carpet bomb. Have you not seen how much devastation that can cause?

It's like you're thinking about toys.. I don't understand your logic. A shell from a battleship will level a freaking building, and it can't kill a zombie? Jesus, that's just crazy thinking. A stealth bomber would reduce a stadium into rubble that is barely recognizable.

Tell me you aren't serious about what you're saying. I can't even find enough words to say how ridiculous your statement is.


A tank shell doesn't detonate on impact with a human.. Tank shells aren't anti personel weapons..  it rips through a crowd of zombies who will still be functional with a hole through their bodies..  There are shotgun like shells, Flechette shells, but they are banned, only Israel still uses them..

Still the best the army could do is defend themself and not save the entire world, there is just not enough military personel to do that. Sure a Battleship can clear the first wave but then it would be dead on the water cause their supply base would be overcrowded by too many ships who are trying to resupply and too many zombies who are attacking.. then what? The Military supply isn't endless while the zombies pretty much are.


So you're assuming these tank shells, which can come from say, a thousand tanks, will never hit a single zombie head? And assuming they don't, you're assuming that a zombie without legs or arms can still be dangerous?

Your assumptions also seem to say that ships and armies need to resupply every day, and that's simply not the case. Take WW2 for example. Iwo Jima took 10 freaking days of non-stop bombardment before the troops landed. Do you think the ships had to go back and forth to base in order to do that? The nearest base must've been a thousand miles way. And remember, that was more than 60 years ago. The military's resupply methods and weapons systems have only since improved a hundredfold. For instance, a single nuclear powered aircraft carrier has enough juice to never resupply for up to 25 years.

And zombies aren't endless. Remember, zombies are only the weird remains of humans. There are only 7 billion people in the world, so there's a maximum of 7 billion zombies to kill. However, we're also saying that a human population exists to fight them, surely a whole lot of people are dead and not able to come back, and a lot of those people are children/elderly/disabled so it's likely to be a lot less than 7 billion.

Probably 3-4 billion bodies at maximum, and a single MOAB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-43/B_Massive_Ordnance_Air_Blast) can wipe out hundreds of thousands of bodies by itself. We're talking 11 freaking tons of TNT and the military has 15 of these bad boys. Not to mention the thousands upon thousands of other conventional bombs that the military has in possession (I'm removing nuclear weapons from the equation, but if the military wanted to, they can use them). You gonna tell me that these things won't destroy zombies? Sheesh, these things destroy COUNTRIES. You gonna tell me the military will run out of bombs? Impossible. There're enough conventional bombs in the world to wipe out the whole human population ten times over.

And your resupply argument doesn't make any sense. The troops deployed in Iraq don't need to come back to the US to get new bombs and bullets. They bring enough to start armaggeddon and can get airdrops daily for fresh supplies.



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bugrimmar said:
arcane_chaos said:
bugrimmar said:
arcane_chaos said:
to me it depends on exactly what zombie you are dealing with; is they're like Dawn of the Dead, Last of Us(not zombies but close enough) or Day Z(with no cure) I think we'd personally be fucked, maybe even thrown in the world of "The Walking Dead" because EVERYONE is infected regardless so being bit or scumming to something like a heart attack and you'll turn.

I would say you'd be safe in a resident evil world 1-3 but hunters, lickers, and tyrants would be something I would not want to deal with.


Tell me, how do any of those zombies take down a tank?

No, but I'm alluding to the rate of infection ;  in Day Z you'll turn within 10 sec of being bitten, and on top of that they run at a continuous sprint. In the last of us it only a few hours, and the longer you're infected the deadlier you become, sure a bloater(TLOU) might be able to take down a tank buy a sinlge spore bomb would infect them instantly. And walking dead everyone is infected to some degree, meaning however you die unless you're decapitated/stabbed in the temple or burned you'll turn. And in a resident evil world i think a tyrant could give a tank a run for its money.



 

In The Last of Us, humans can avoid getting infected with simple gas masks, and the military had a certain amount of control over the situation. They simply had better things to worry about than taking on the zombies head on - they had to maintain peace and order for the civilian population. Make no mistake, however, if the military wanted to bomb the hell out of the zombies, they could do so easily.

Tyrant, btw, is a joke. One guy took it down with a rocket launcher. Is that really something the military should be scared of? It's a glorified bear if you ask me.

Anyway, the point of what I was saying is that "assuming a human population continues to exist", meaning some humans won't get turned/infected. In the scenario of humans vs. zombies in a real war, removing the possiblity of "everyone getting infected", the humans can't lose because of weapons technology.


which I agree, I believe humans would continue to exist but like the games/movies  mentioned above but the global population would be decimated, TLOU and Walking dead are probably the best depictions of this. not everyone one has guns and gask masks, people hide their bites/loves ones refuse to kill their love ones, goverment upheavel.(or none at all)

weaponry can only so much to contain/control the infected, gun/tanks/airplanes need constant maintenance...zombies to not



arcane_chaos said:

which I agree, I believe humans would continue to exist but like the games/movies  mentioned above but the global population would be decimated, TLOU and Walking dead are probably the best depictions of this. not everyone one has guns and gask masks, people hide their bites/loves ones refuse to kill their love ones, goverment upheavel.(or none at all)

weaponry can only so much to contain/control the infected, gun/tanks/airplanes need constant maintenance...zombies to not


Then your argument is different now. It's more that the humans can't bring themselves to really crush the zombie opposition because of morality and priorities. The military has to take care of the population etc. and doesn't really have the manpower to do that and battle zombies at the same time.

In that case, you're correct. However, I'm talking about the war itself, in that humans will decimate zombies in a full scale war, quite easily. Don't speak of maintenance as if it completely disables the military. Jesus, read up on WW2. The ships and planes kept bombing the same islands over and over again for weeks at a time without stopping. Where's the "maintenance" there? And technology now is light years ahead of what it was back then. Airdrops can be done daily for new bombs and bullets and even vehicles. I don't see where you get this notion that we "can't fight".



bugrimmar said:


So you're assuming these tank shells, which can come from say, a thousand tanks, will never hit a single zombie head? And assuming they don't, you're assuming that a zombie without legs or arms can still be dangerous?

Your assumptions also seem to say that ships and armies need to resupply every day, and that's simply not the case. Take WW2 for example. Iwo Jima took 10 freaking days of non-stop bombardment before the troops landed. Do you think the ships had to go back and forth to base in order to do that? The nearest base must've been a thousand miles way. And remember, that was more than 60 years ago. The military's resupply methods and weapons systems have only since improved a hundredfold. For instance, a single nuclear powered aircraft carrier has enough juice to never resupply for up to 25 years.

And zombies aren't endless. Remember, zombies are only the weird remains of humans. There are only 7 billion people in the world, so there's a maximum of 7 billion zombies to kill. However, we're also saying that a human population exists to fight them, surely a whole lot of people are dead and not able to come back, and a lot of those people are children/elderly/disabled so it's likely to be a lot less than 7 billion.

Probably 3-4 billion bodies at maximum, and a single MOAB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-43/B_Massive_Ordnance_Air_Blast) can wipe out hundreds of thousands of bodies by itself. We're talking 11 freaking tons of TNT and the military has 15 of these bad boys. Not to mention the thousands upon thousands of other conventional bombs that the military has in possession (I'm removing nuclear weapons from the equation, but if the military wanted to, they can use them). You gonna tell me that these things won't destroy zombies? Sheesh, these things destroy COUNTRIES. You gonna tell me the military will run out of bombs? Impossible. There're enough conventional bombs in the world to wipe out the whole human population ten times over.

And your resupply argument doesn't make any sense. The troops deployed in Iraq don't need to come back to the US to get new bombs and bullets. They bring enough to start armaggeddon and can get airdrops daily for fresh supplies.

how are you gonna protect the corn fields, cows, water, food supply? Sure a nuclair ship can be powered for 25 years but the people on it can't..
Troop deployement in Iraq works cause its a relatively small number of people you have to resupply in a small area.. No to mention it was like 1:1 on logistical and outsourced personel vs military personel.. You do realise for the military to be actually combat ready for a long time they are very dependent. Its not self-relaint. Do you think a pilot can maintain his own fighterplane? Or knows how to refuel it? Fighter planes somtimes don't lift off cause there is freaking dust on them.. Who is gonna clean them? Fairies? Sure they have enough bombs but they won't get them to were they are needed. You can't save New York and Los Angeles, your own military bases and food supplies at the same time. the Armies aren't that big to do that..

We are talking about a global zombie outbreak.. So we let all the african people die? and asians? every time you drop a massive bomb you destroy the land that is feeding you. Who will get the left over food? the people or the military? its impossible to have all the soldiers in the world protect all the people in the world. it can't be done, logistically its impossible. Sure you could concentrate a lot of people into single area but that would mean the zombies would win.



 

Face the future.. Gamecenter ID: nikkom_nl (oh no he didn't!!) 

NiKKoM said:
bugrimmar said:


So you're assuming these tank shells, which can come from say, a thousand tanks, will never hit a single zombie head? And assuming they don't, you're assuming that a zombie without legs or arms can still be dangerous?

Your assumptions also seem to say that ships and armies need to resupply every day, and that's simply not the case. Take WW2 for example. Iwo Jima took 10 freaking days of non-stop bombardment before the troops landed. Do you think the ships had to go back and forth to base in order to do that? The nearest base must've been a thousand miles way. And remember, that was more than 60 years ago. The military's resupply methods and weapons systems have only since improved a hundredfold. For instance, a single nuclear powered aircraft carrier has enough juice to never resupply for up to 25 years.

And zombies aren't endless. Remember, zombies are only the weird remains of humans. There are only 7 billion people in the world, so there's a maximum of 7 billion zombies to kill. However, we're also saying that a human population exists to fight them, surely a whole lot of people are dead and not able to come back, and a lot of those people are children/elderly/disabled so it's likely to be a lot less than 7 billion.

Probably 3-4 billion bodies at maximum, and a single MOAB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-43/B_Massive_Ordnance_Air_Blast) can wipe out hundreds of thousands of bodies by itself. We're talking 11 freaking tons of TNT and the military has 15 of these bad boys. Not to mention the thousands upon thousands of other conventional bombs that the military has in possession (I'm removing nuclear weapons from the equation, but if the military wanted to, they can use them). You gonna tell me that these things won't destroy zombies? Sheesh, these things destroy COUNTRIES. You gonna tell me the military will run out of bombs? Impossible. There're enough conventional bombs in the world to wipe out the whole human population ten times over.

And your resupply argument doesn't make any sense. The troops deployed in Iraq don't need to come back to the US to get new bombs and bullets. They bring enough to start armaggeddon and can get airdrops daily for fresh supplies.

how are you gonna protect the corn fields, cows, water, food supply? Sure a nuclair ship can be powered for 25 years but the people on it can't..
Troop deployement in Iraq works cause its a relatively small number of people you have to resupply in a small area.. No to mention it was like 1:1 on logistical and outsourced personel vs military personel.. You do realise for the military to be actually combat ready for a long time they are very dependent. Its not self-relaint. Do you think a pilot can maintain his own fighterplane? Or knows how to refuel it? Fighter planes somtimes don't lift off cause there is freaking dust on them.. Who is gonna clean them? Fairies? Sure they have enough bombs but they won't get them to were they are needed. You can't save New York and Los Angeles, your own military bases and food supplies at the same time. the Armies aren't that big to do that..

We are talking about a global zombie outbreak.. So we let all the african people die? and asians? every time you drop a massive bomb you destroy the land that is feeding you. Who will get the left over food? the people or the military? its impossible to have all the soldiers in the world protect all the people in the world. it can't be done, logistically its impossible. Sure you could concentrate a lot of people into single area but that would mean the zombies would win.

My argument is about how humans can't lose to zombies in a war. I'm not talking about "protecting the world". I'm talking about "winning the war". You're right, it's impossible to protect every single man, woman and child. However, it is very much possible to draw zombies into one place and bomb the hell out of all of them.

In that scenario, how is this war going to take long enough for food supplies to run out? The weapons we have now can destroy them all in an Instant. Globally, yes, lots of countries will suffer. But in the end, they can't even get near a machine gun bunker. Remember, the enemy is very stupid and incapable of higher thought. They can't detect ambushes and they can't understand when humans are drawing them into a bomb site. Isn't it so simple? Draw them all in one place, and boom, problem solved. Industrialized nations won't have any trouble with this but yes, developing nations will.

But after the powerful countries are done with their own problem, they can go and bomb the others as well. That's "winning the war" because the zombie population will be eradicated. But zombies can't "win" because they can't do that. They can't get rid of every human there is. But humans CAN get rid of every zombie there is. That's what makes my argument more sound than yours.



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bugrimmar said:
arcane_chaos said:

which I agree, I believe humans would continue to exist but like the games/movies  mentioned above but the global population would be decimated, TLOU and Walking dead are probably the best depictions of this. not everyone one has guns and gask masks, people hide their bites/loves ones refuse to kill their love ones, goverment upheavel.(or none at all)

weaponry can only so much to contain/control the infected, gun/tanks/airplanes need constant maintenance...zombies to not


Then your argument is different now. It's more that the humans can't bring themselves to really crush the zombie opposition because of morality and priorities. The military has to take care of the population etc. and doesn't really have the manpower to do that and battle zombies at the same time.

In that case, you're correct. However, I'm talking about the war itself, in that humans will decimate zombies in a full scale war, quite easily. Don't speak of maintenance as if it completely disables the military. Jesus, read up on WW2. The ships and planes kept bombing the same islands over and over again for weeks at a time without stopping. Where's the "maintenance" there? And technology now is light years ahead of what it was back then. Airdrops can be done daily for new bombs and bullets and even vehicles. I don't see where you get this notion that we "can't fight".

hey there man,  it's all in good fun :)

anyway it I don't see how my arguement has changed, yes morals and priorites will play apart, but the zombie outbreak would be the main catastrophe, it's like it is just not about weapons, morality and priorites also played the part like how France and GB(well the whole League of Nations) ignored Italy an Germany and the  biuld up their armies and the taking over of land in africa; one tends to think of their own before helping other.(also they suffered the greater losses out of WWI) even though they fighting against germany in WWI, the US still gave germany bonds in order to rebuild their country. 

 while talking about WW2 and it's pretty clare the reason they were able to continuously bomb those islands(I'm guessing we're talking about the japanese islands at this point) was because they had a designated target and they were as you said islands, try covering the mass of the North America and even bigger Europe/Asia, it's too big to be covered in designated strikes; and as mentioned in TLOU/WD it's the very first thing they tried  and yet the outbreak still persisted, how can one tend to fend off a growing infection if they're bombing their own cities and people to prevent that said infection. even if we added all military personel in the world they wouldn't even equal 1 percent of the human population.



It depends on what type of Zombie we are talking about.

I can see mankind losing to the kind from "Return of the living Dead"

And those are the real ones ...according to the movie



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

arcane_chaos said:
bugrimmar said:
arcane_chaos said:

which I agree, I believe humans would continue to exist but like the games/movies  mentioned above but the global population would be decimated, TLOU and Walking dead are probably the best depictions of this. not everyone one has guns and gask masks, people hide their bites/loves ones refuse to kill their love ones, goverment upheavel.(or none at all)

weaponry can only so much to contain/control the infected, gun/tanks/airplanes need constant maintenance...zombies to not


Then your argument is different now. It's more that the humans can't bring themselves to really crush the zombie opposition because of morality and priorities. The military has to take care of the population etc. and doesn't really have the manpower to do that and battle zombies at the same time.

In that case, you're correct. However, I'm talking about the war itself, in that humans will decimate zombies in a full scale war, quite easily. Don't speak of maintenance as if it completely disables the military. Jesus, read up on WW2. The ships and planes kept bombing the same islands over and over again for weeks at a time without stopping. Where's the "maintenance" there? And technology now is light years ahead of what it was back then. Airdrops can be done daily for new bombs and bullets and even vehicles. I don't see where you get this notion that we "can't fight".

hey there man,  it's all in good fun :)

anyway it I don't see how my arguement has changed, yes morals and priorites will play apart, but the zombie outbreak would be the main catastrophe, it's like it is just not about weapons, morality and priorites also played the part like how France and GB(well the whole League of Nations) ignored Italy an Germany and the  biuld up their armies and the taking over of land in africa; one tends to think of their own before helping other.(also they suffered the greater losses out of WWI) even though they fighting against germany in WWI, the US still gave germany bonds in order to rebuild their country. 

 while talking about WW2 and it's pretty clare the reason they were able to continuously bomb those islands(I'm guessing we're talking about the japanese islands at this point) was because they had a designated target and they were as you said islands, try covering the mass of the North America and even bigger Europe/Asia, it's too big to be covered in designated strikes; and as mentioned in TLOU/WD it's the very first thing they tried  and yet the outbreak still persisted, how can one tend to fend off a growing infection if they're bombing their own cities and people to prevent that said infection. even if we added all military personel in the world they wouldn't even equal 1 percent of the human population.


It is all in good fun :P

My whole argument centers around the fact that zombies aren't smart. They're mindless bodies that can be drawn into one area and destroyed. Just tie a piece of meat to a robotic drone and have it run around in circles. Then when the zombies start to swarm around it, drop some shells all over the place. This tactic can be easily done over and over again because zombies can't think and can't digest the fact that they're being tricked. Factor that into the equation and you'll see that it's really so easy for humans to win.



bugrimmar said:

My argument is about how humans can't lose to zombies in a war. I'm not talking about "protecting the world". I'm talking about "winning the war". You're right, it's impossible to protect every single man, woman and child. However, it is very much possible to draw zombies into one place and bomb the hell out of all of them.

In that scenario, how is this war going to take long enough for food supplies to run out? The weapons we have now can destroy them all in an Instant. Globally, yes, lots of countries will suffer. But in the end, they can't even get near a machine gun bunker. Remember, the enemy is very stupid and incapable of higher thought. They can't detect ambushes and they can't understand when humans are drawing them into a bomb site. Isn't it so simple? Draw them all in one place, and boom, problem solved. Industrialized nations won't have any trouble with this but yes, developing nations will.

But after the powerful countries are done with their own problem, they can go and bomb the others as well. That's "winning the war" because the zombie population will be eradicated. But zombies can't "win" because they can't do that. They can't get rid of every human there is. But humans CAN get rid of every zombie there is. That's what makes my argument more sound than yours.

Your argument is based of having bigger bombs but you have no idea how a military works. "Draw zombies in one place and bomb the hell out of them" how are you gonna do that in a country the size of the US? An army isn't large enough to do that... the US has 4 active soldiers per 1000 people. So you are gonna try to have 4 soldiers round up lets say per 700 zombies? have them walk 50 miles with them to the point were other soldiers have brought zombies? so then there would be 16 soldiers and 2800 zombies just waiting untill a plane flies by dropping a bomb?

They can't get near a machine gunbunker? they don't have to, if they would just surround it they would win. I mean unless there are super soldiers who don't need food or water and have unlimited ammo. Every minute wasted by the military protecting their own bases is a win for the zombies.

like I said, its impossible to protect your own base, New York Los Angeles and the food supplies. but thank god for those Zombie Radars to sniff out every zombie in the world. Even when they bunker up in their bases and wait untill the rest of the world is zombified, and then bomb the hell out of them, they couldn't win. Not enough people to cover the world trying to sniff out every last zombie.. especially when you bombed everything and food and energy supplies are running out.




 

Face the future.. Gamecenter ID: nikkom_nl (oh no he didn't!!) 

NiKKoM said:
bugrimmar said:

My argument is about how humans can't lose to zombies in a war. I'm not talking about "protecting the world". I'm talking about "winning the war". You're right, it's impossible to protect every single man, woman and child. However, it is very much possible to draw zombies into one place and bomb the hell out of all of them.

In that scenario, how is this war going to take long enough for food supplies to run out? The weapons we have now can destroy them all in an Instant. Globally, yes, lots of countries will suffer. But in the end, they can't even get near a machine gun bunker. Remember, the enemy is very stupid and incapable of higher thought. They can't detect ambushes and they can't understand when humans are drawing them into a bomb site. Isn't it so simple? Draw them all in one place, and boom, problem solved. Industrialized nations won't have any trouble with this but yes, developing nations will.

But after the powerful countries are done with their own problem, they can go and bomb the others as well. That's "winning the war" because the zombie population will be eradicated. But zombies can't "win" because they can't do that. They can't get rid of every human there is. But humans CAN get rid of every zombie there is. That's what makes my argument more sound than yours.

Your argument is based of having bigger bombs but you have no idea how a military works. "Draw zombies in one place and bomb the hell out of them" how are you gonna do that in a country the size of the US? An army isn't large enough to do that... the US has 4 active soldiers per 1000 people. So you are gonna try to have 4 soldiers round up lets say per 700 zombies? have them walk 50 miles with them to the point were other soldiers have brought zombies? so then there would be 16 soldiers and 2800 zombies just waiting untill a plane flies by dropping a bomb?

They can't get near a machine gunbunker? they don't have to, if they would just surround it they would win. I mean unless there are super soldiers who don't need food or water and have unlimited ammo. Every minute wasted by the military protecting their own bases is a win for the zombies.

like I said, its impossible to protect your own base, New York Los Angeles and the food supplies. but thank god for those Zombie Radars to sniff out every zombie in the world. Even when they bunker up in their bases and wait untill the rest of the world is zombified, and then bomb the hell out of them, they couldn't win. Not enough people to cover the world trying to sniff out every last zombie.. especially when you bombed everything and food and energy supplies are running out.



You're forgetting that the military has unmanned drones. With drones, things can all be done remotely, drawing in, bombing, rinse and repeat. The drone itself can be the one doing the bombing too.

Don't forget that we're dealing with a stupid enemy. An enemy that can't think and an enemy that can't understand what an ambush is. They see a machine gun bunker, they'll just run straight at it. Do you think that zombies understand siege warfare? No, they'll just keep running into a meat grinder if they see something to eat in there. You want this even easier? Lay land mines all over the place and just put a piece of meat 100 feet behind them and watch the zombies slaughter themselves.

Just remember, the enemy is mindless and will just go forward. They don't have strategy and they can't understand when strategy is being used against them. Don't think as if the zombies will fight humans the way humans will fight humans. Think of them as wild animals.. Humans tamed them a long time ago. Before, they were dangerous. Now, any guy with a hunting rifle can just lay the smack down on even the fiercest king of the jungle. Why is that? Because wild animals can't think of strategy.