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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Art of #GamerGate

Tachikoma said:
DanneSandin said:
I haven't watched the video yet, but I think it's important to remember that no matter what GamerGate started out as, it's changed. Media (and not just gaming media - media as a whole) has determined what it is about NOW. The discourse now is about misogyny within the gaming community, that has been determined by the larger debate.

GG "followers" might argue that it's about journalistic integrity, but that's not what is being discussed when talking about GG nowadays; it's shifted towards death threats and online harassment.

I dont agree at all.

Collectively, both the aggressive feminist movement and the gaming press benefit from the destruction of the movement, and have embarked on a campaign over the past 2 months to relentlessly dog and mar the discussion, drag it directly from what it's root cause was for and insist that it's about feminism, in doing so and in the clinical execution of unanimously emploring people to drop the tag, they expose their purpose, and that purpose is to bury any question of corruption and underhanded dealings throughout the games media.

Even if the handful of idiots that took things to a personal level had not done so, do you really think, for a second, that an industry that thrives and makes its bread and butter from such dealings and a deep intertwining of lies and manipulation, are going to be welcoming in any way shape or form, of a movement intent on exposing these?

By forcing the opinions of the neutral to believe that the movement "changed" to one about nothing but hate, they sidestep the responsibility and risk, while turning the movement in to a sitting duck for contraversy and hits, as well as allowing the leaders of this bullshit to springboard their publicity and careers off of the back of it.

Please explain the bolded part a little for me, won't you? Thx.

GamerGate started when Zoe Quinn was "exposed", and had nothing to do with Anita Sarkes...ian (?), but she soon found herself neck deep because she released a video regarding females in video games. GamerGate forced her in, more or less. The fun part about all of this is that GamerGate very fast attacked Zoe, but NOT the journalists that allegedly was bribed. Very personal attacks on Zoe, with naked photos of her being spread around the net by gamergaters. They all talked about how curropt the journalists were, but did in no way attack any of them in the same way Zoe got attacked.

And why bring Anita into this? She was attacked by gamergaters as well, and don't try to deny that. Maybe the movement never changed, but that means that it was bad and rotten to begin with.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

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Nicklesbe said:
Zkuq said:
I have no idea what this is about but I just want to say both sides are arrogant assholes. And pardon my French.

Probably the only thing that could be said for certain lol. Lots of lies and abuse and coordinated conspiracy on both sides.

Obviously, the video is biased because its coming from one side of the argument.

However, the facts it is based on are true.

Rather than support GG, I think its more important to be aware of the attack of gamer culture by the gaming media, because we've definetly seen this before, but I don't think we realized the scale. 6 competing sites posting similar anti-gamer articles linking to similar posting sites is not a coincedence, and asserting collusion because of that is not a conspiracy.

Especially since a call for ethical jouranlism started this, and regardless of what GG has allegedly done, unethical gaming journalism has been experienced by all. 



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

Obviously, the video is biased because its coming from one side of the argument.

However, the facts it is based on are true.

Rather than support GG, I think its more important to be aware of the attack of gamer culture by the gaming media, because we've definetly seen this before, but I don't think we realized the scale. 6 competing sites posting similar anti-gamer articles linking to similar posting sites is not a coincedence, and asserting collusion because of that is not a conspiracy.

Especially since a call for ethical jouranlism started this, and regardless of what GG has allegedly done, unethical gaming journalism has been experienced by all. 

I'd much rather have unethical game journalism than death threats and harassments...



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

DanneSandin said:
Tachikoma said:
DanneSandin said:
I haven't watched the video yet, but I think it's important to remember that no matter what GamerGate started out as, it's changed. Media (and not just gaming media - media as a whole) has determined what it is about NOW. The discourse now is about misogyny within the gaming community, that has been determined by the larger debate.

GG "followers" might argue that it's about journalistic integrity, but that's not what is being discussed when talking about GG nowadays; it's shifted towards death threats and online harassment.

I dont agree at all.

Collectively, both the aggressive feminist movement and the gaming press benefit from the destruction of the movement, and have embarked on a campaign over the past 2 months to relentlessly dog and mar the discussion, drag it directly from what it's root cause was for and insist that it's about feminism, in doing so and in the clinical execution of unanimously emploring people to drop the tag, they expose their purpose, and that purpose is to bury any question of corruption and underhanded dealings throughout the games media.

Even if the handful of idiots that took things to a personal level had not done so, do you really think, for a second, that an industry that thrives and makes its bread and butter from such dealings and a deep intertwining of lies and manipulation, are going to be welcoming in any way shape or form, of a movement intent on exposing these?

By forcing the opinions of the neutral to believe that the movement "changed" to one about nothing but hate, they sidestep the responsibility and risk, while turning the movement in to a sitting duck for contraversy and hits, as well as allowing the leaders of this bullshit to springboard their publicity and careers off of the back of it.

Please explain the bolded part a little for me, won't you? Thx.

GamerGate started when Zoe Quinn was "exposed", and had nothing to do with Anita Sarkes...ian (?), but she soon found herself neck deep because she released a video regarding females in video games. GamerGate forced her in, more or less. The fun part about all of this is that GamerGate very fast attacked Zoe, but NOT the journalists that allegedly was bribed. Very personal attacks on Zoe, with naked photos of her being spread around the net by gamergaters. They all talked about how curropt the journalists were, but did in no way attack any of them in the same way Zoe got attacked.

And why bring Anita into this? She was attacked by gamergaters as well, and don't try to deny that. Maybe the movement never changed, but that means that it was bad and rotten to begin with.

Why do you generalize the entire gamer gate group as criminals because of splinters whose claims to be part of GG but clearly represents a different mindset? 

Is that not the exact same thing as generalizing all gamers as "White, mysognistic males"

Should the gaming community be ignored because of a subset who are immature and make death threats? The mainstream media has called us psychopaths for years, Is that reason not to take offense when the media that has an audience of gamers does the same thing, because one idiot sent a death threat?

These generalizations are the reason this whole thing started in the first place. Gamers are a diverse group of individuals who only share the hobby of gaming. 

We call the people sending death threats, crazy, but here you are saying it was all of GamerGate. That doesn't really make sense does it?



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

DanneSandin said:
Tachikoma said:
DanneSandin said:
I haven't watched the video yet, but I think it's important to remember that no matter what GamerGate started out as, it's changed. Media (and not just gaming media - media as a whole) has determined what it is about NOW. The discourse now is about misogyny within the gaming community, that has been determined by the larger debate.

GG "followers" might argue that it's about journalistic integrity, but that's not what is being discussed when talking about GG nowadays; it's shifted towards death threats and online harassment.

I dont agree at all.

Collectively, both the aggressive feminist movement and the gaming press benefit from the destruction of the movement, and have embarked on a campaign over the past 2 months to relentlessly dog and mar the discussion, drag it directly from what it's root cause was for and insist that it's about feminism, in doing so and in the clinical execution of unanimously emploring people to drop the tag, they expose their purpose, and that purpose is to bury any question of corruption and underhanded dealings throughout the games media.

Even if the handful of idiots that took things to a personal level had not done so, do you really think, for a second, that an industry that thrives and makes its bread and butter from such dealings and a deep intertwining of lies and manipulation, are going to be welcoming in any way shape or form, of a movement intent on exposing these?

By forcing the opinions of the neutral to believe that the movement "changed" to one about nothing but hate, they sidestep the responsibility and risk, while turning the movement in to a sitting duck for contraversy and hits, as well as allowing the leaders of this bullshit to springboard their publicity and careers off of the back of it.

Please explain the bolded part a little for me, won't you? Thx.

GamerGate started when Zoe Quinn was "exposed", and had nothing to do with Anita Sarkes...ian (?), but she soon found herself neck deep because she released a video regarding females in video games. GamerGate forced her in, more or less. The fun part about all of this is that GamerGate very fast attacked Zoe, but NOT the journalists that allegedly was bribed. Very personal attacks on Zoe, with naked photos of her being spread around the net by gamergaters. They all talked about how curropt the journalists were, but did in no way attack any of them in the same way Zoe got attacked.

And why bring Anita into this? She was attacked by gamergaters as well, and don't try to deny that. Maybe the movement never changed, but that means that it was bad and rotten to begin with.

Apparently you don't use twitter very often, things were said, multiple times, that not only acted as her getting involved herself, but making it clear that anyone even so much as on the fence, was an angry male and thus "a monster".

again, gamergate started out as, and continues to be about the corruption, the problem is i suspect you have bought in to the bullshit, with all vocal feminists and all games media constantly making the connection where a connection was never there, and pushing their agenda, by subscribing to that train of thought you have robbed yourself of objectivity.

Now for the bolded,
Feminists have been around for an extremely long time, and have done amazing things to aid with equality and bring fairness and stability to society, agressive feminism is a relatively new breed in which educated women (many from communications studies and such vocational degrees) step headlong in to the firing line to lay down their ideals, there is no middle ground, you are either with them or against them, but it isn't simply a matter of "this person doesn't agree with us, but let's hear them out anyway" it's a matter of "theyre the enemy, shame them, attack them, insult them and degrade any point they attempt to make by cherry picking whatever you can and fix-focusing on a particular point, even if they werent the ones that made it, to force your own agenda.

That is the case here, I am neutral to either discussion, becase neither side are approaching things in a way I wish to identify with, however there is an extreme amount of cherry picking going on, a well known feminist will spout absolute tripe for hours, claiming anyone who is so much as undecided is a monster, misogynist and potential rapist, but the second someone speaks up in defence, regardless of how calm or polite they do so, either the person they directed the response to or the droves of mindless followers of said person take it upon themselves to do the attacking and labeling in their stead.

This culture of aggressive insistant opinion is very much aggressive feminism, because there is not so much as a suggestion of any form of open dialog, it's not an invitation to discuss and enrich the situation, it is simply laying down a line in the sand and forcing people to pick a side, and god help you if it isn't the side they wanted you to pick.

I've even had fellow female game developers still in the business talk to me about having received emails and letters from prominent feminists and games sites basically asking "have you heard about gamersgate, what is your view and by the way if you get involved you will be attacked and assaulted by millions of angry men, if that happens we'll defend you", and it's absolutely sickening, i've even had a very well known, and active games journalist who i was previously good friends with, ask me to get involved and help "construct" a situation where I would join a list of victimized women in the industry who have been personally threatened, to make matters even more sickening, It was heavilly implied that in doing so, I would "greatly increase my noteriety and favor within the industry and media".

It's this discussion that lead me to write a long post on my experiences with this corruption a few days ago, and frankly i'm fucking sick it of.

The industry is a cess pit and there is no amecable end in sight, there is no middle ground, no matter which side wins, everything is going to go to shit.

Oh and those zoe nude pictures? they were already all over the internet long before this all blew up, that's kinda what happens when you do a series of softcore porn shoots.



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DanneSandin said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

Obviously, the video is biased because its coming from one side of the argument.

However, the facts it is based on are true.

Rather than support GG, I think its more important to be aware of the attack of gamer culture by the gaming media, because we've definetly seen this before, but I don't think we realized the scale. 6 competing sites posting similar anti-gamer articles linking to similar posting sites is not a coincedence, and asserting collusion because of that is not a conspiracy.

Especially since a call for ethical jouranlism started this, and regardless of what GG has allegedly done, unethical gaming journalism has been experienced by all. 

I'd much rather have unethical game journalism than death threats and harassments...

Think about what your saying for a minute. You are saying you'd rather the professional gaming media, you know people who get paid to provide gamers with information, provide us with faulty and biased information then children acting up because they are mad. Newsflash, the gaming community aren't professional, they do not follow the same rules as professional organizations.  

Are death threats and harrassment some how ok? No.

Are death threats and harrassment unique to Gamergate? Hell no.

So why in the hell do you think, no Gamergate = No Harrasment, no my friend it means more shitty journalism.

Just because a few psychopaths, sent death threats because of what Zoe did, doesn't mean she wasn't wrong, nor does it me those death threats are right.

But especially in the gaming community, psychopaths send death threats about everything, game not working death threat, game not good enough death threat.

You can't get rid of them because of the way to community's developed and even if you raze it to the ground as this part of the gaming media is trying to do, it won't amount to shit, it'll just be more demonizing. The only ones who would survive, figuratively, would be the psychos making death threats, and then normal people will equate gamer with psychopath, like the mainstream media has been doing for decades.

 

Its a lot more complicated then unethical journalism vs death threats, that should be obvious.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

Why do you generalize the entire gamer gate group as criminals because of splinters whose claims to be part of GG but clearly represents a different mindset? 

Is that not the exact same thing as generalizing all gamers as "White, mysognistic males"

Should the gaming community be ignored because of a subset who are immature and make death threats? The mainstream media has called us psychopaths for years, Is that reason not to take offense when the media that has an audience of gamers does the same thing, because one idiot sent a death threat?

These generalizations are the reason this whole thing started in the first place. Gamers are a diverse group of individuals who only share the hobby of gaming. 

We call the people sending death threats, crazy, but here you are saying it was all of GamerGate. That doesn't really make sense does it?

And you're proving them right. That's the point. What I'm saying is that it's better the change the name of the movement than to be ascosiated with misogynistic assholes, isn't it? GamerGate is now very closely ascosiated with that kind of treatment of women, so it's better to move on and change the name of the game. Even from the very start GG got ties with harassments and death threats.

And would you mind giving me links to the articles you were talking about with regards to gamers and such? The attack on gaming culture? Thx =)



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

DanneSandin said:

And you're proving them right. That's the point. What I'm saying is that it's better the change the name of the movement than to be ascosiated with misogynistic assholes, isn't it? GamerGate is now very closely ascosiated with that kind of treatment of women, so it's better to move on and change the name of the game. Even from the very start GG got ties with harassments and death threats.

And would you mind giving me links to the articles you were talking about with regards to gamers and such? The attack on gaming culture? Thx =)

The reason they want the hashtag dead is because of how widely used it has become, if the movement made a new hashtag and it looked as if it were gaining traction on twitter, the media would simply draw comparisons and thus link the two, completely defeating the point.

If you think the media will happily sit by and let a movement that stands to expose their corruption gather enough traction and be taken seriously enough to pose them a thread, you've not really thought about the motivations enough.

Would a bent cop do his duty and protect a whitness intending to expose him?



Tachikoma said:

Apparently you don't use twitter very often, things were said, multiple times, that not only acted as her getting involved herself, but making it clear that anyone even so much as on the fence, was an angry male and thus "a monster".

again, gamergate started out as, and continues to be about the corruption, the problem is i suspect you have bought in to the bullshit, with all vocal feminists and all games media constantly making the connection where a connection was never there, and pushing their agenda, by subscribing to that train of thought you have robbed yourself of objectivity.

Now for the bolded,
Feminists have been around for an extremely long time, and have done amazing things to aid with equality and bring fairness and stability to society, agressive feminism is a relatively new breed in which educated women (many from communications studies and such vocational degrees) step headlong in to the firing line to lay down their ideals, there is no middle ground, you are either with them or against them, but it isn't simply a matter of "this person doesn't agree with us, but let's hear them out anyway" it's a matter of "theyre the enemy, shame them, attack them, insult them and degrade any point they attempt to make by cherry picking whatever you can and fix-focusing on a particular point, even if they werent the ones that made it, to force your own agenda.

That is the case here, I am neutral to either discussion, becase neither side are approaching things in a way I wish to identify with, however there is an extreme amount of cherry picking going on, a well known feminist will spout absolute tripe for hours, claiming anyone who is so much as undecided is a monster, misogynist and potential rapist, but the second someone speaks up in defence, regardless of how calm or polite they do so, either the person they directed the response to or the droves of mindless followers of said person take it upon themselves to do the attacking and labeling in their stead.

This culture of aggressive insistant opinion is very much aggressive feminism, because there is not so much as a suggestion of any form of open dialog, it's not an invitation to discuss and enrich the situation, it is simply laying down a line in the sand and forcing people to pick a side, and god help you if it isn't the side they wanted you to pick.

I've even had fellow female game developers still in the business talk to me about having received emails and letters from prominent feminists and games sites basically asking "have you heard about gamersgate, what is your view and by the way if you get involved you will be attacked and assaulted by millions of angry men, if that happens we'll defend you", and it's absolutely sickening, i've even had a very well known, and active games journalist who i was previously good friends with, ask me to get involved and help "construct" a situation where I would join a list of victimized women in the industry who have been personally threatened, to make matters even more sickening, It was heavilly implied that in doing so, I would "greatly increase my noteriety and favor within the industry and media".

It's this discussion that lead me to write a long post on my experiences with this corruption a few days ago, and frankly i'm fucking sick it of.

The industry is a cess pit and there is no amecable end in sight, there is no middle ground, no matter which side wins, everything is going to go to shit.

Oh and those zoe nude pictures? they were already all over the internet long before this all blew up, that's kinda what happens when you do a series of softcore porn shoots.

wall of text... You seem to miss my point though: in the eye of media everywhere, GG is about misogyny and harassments, and thus in the long run, if you support GG you more or less these kind of behaviors now - since that's where the duscission has shifted.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

DanneSandin said:

wall of text... You seem to miss my point though: in the eye of media everywhere, GG is about misogyny and harassments, and thus in the long run, if you support GG you more or less these kind of behaviors now - since that's where the duscission has shifted.

Of course, because as I keep saying, they stand to benefit from this misdirection.

It isn't how the media see it, however, it's how the media wants to portray it. That's the difference.

Standing down because the media are forcing the public opinion to associate anyone supportive of gamergate as being a monsterous male who hates women, would not fix the matter, it would only enforce the idea to the media that they have the power to get away with anything.

If you're willing to do the same, and assume/label anyone in support of gamergate as the exact same as the extreme minority head-cases, then there's something very wrong, and shows just how effective their smear campaign, because that's exactly what it is, has been.