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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - HOLD IT! Smash Bros. is 1080P? AND 60 FPS?

 

OMG 1080P 60FPS with 8 players?

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Landguy said:
Why is it surprising that a left/right scroller with mostly fixed backgrounds is 1080p/60fps? Is it hard to imagine a whole 8 characters on the screen?

I almost thought people were kidding. How can anyone compare this to the other games that run 720p on the WiiU? Those games had interactive environments and everything...


Not many Wii U games run at 720, most are at 1080p.

It also depends on the developers, and how they utilize the hardware.



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andrewclear said:
Landguy said:
Why is it surprising that a left/right scroller with mostly fixed backgrounds is 1080p/60fps? Is it hard to imagine a whole 8 characters on the screen?

I almost thought people were kidding. How can anyone compare this to the other games that run 720p on the WiiU? Those games had interactive environments and everything...


Not many Wii U games run at 720, most are at 1080p.

It also depends on the developers, and how they utilize the hardware.

Are you sure about that? The only Wii U games I know that are 1080p are Wind Waker HD and this game.



andrewclear said:

Not only that, but what specs are important?  Most people who play games have no clue on what game development consists of, how the hardware actually works, and what actually causes bottlenecks in performance.  They just look at stats like.. 8 core....3.2ghz....8 gb ram....blah blah...and get overly excited.  There is more to it than that, much more.

Nintendo has always been good at engineering their systems to be dedicated gaming systems.  This allows them to expose registers that can be manipulated to allow for the hardware to perfrom tasks, at a rate that any software could only dream of.  Also, when a system is tailored for gaming, you don't have the overhead that is needed when it is a jack of all trades (like a PC).

Now, one important thing people need to look at, in terms of the Wii U, is the GPU.  We know that the CPU isn't as powerful as the PS4 or Xbox One, but does that truly matter in terms of gaming?  Do people on these forums understand what the CPU does in terms of games?  

Now, you have to issue to draw calls with the cpu, and the dispatch calls as well (dispatch is for doing computations on the GPU).  This is where some bottlenecks can really occur, due to bus speeds, and other factors.  Most engines batch their draw calls, so they can have a ton of assets, with a minimal amount of draw calls.

Physics, Particles, Entity Updates, etc, are done on the CPU, but, they can also be done on the GPU, and that is where I believe Nintendo is getting thi performance boost from.  The goal is to have the GPU always running (which usually never happens) and the CPU always running.  That is the goal of system optimization.  If they unload Physics, Particles, and the Entity Updates onto the GPU, that frees up the CPU for other tasks, and keeps the GPU busy inbetween the draw calls.  Now, doing this work on the GPU isn't an easy task for programmers.  Creating a compute shader seems easy, but making sure you are taking advantage of the parallel nature of the GPU, and keeping the algorithm from becoming serial can be a pain.  Poor synchronization can really hamper a concurrent application.

Another thing that really helps, is the memory transfer rate to the GPU is fast.  I read an article that compared the bandwidth with the XBox One, and the Wii U had a 4 GB advantage.  They didn't reference the PS4 in the article.  That is another reason they can hit 1080p on almost all their games, and 60fps.

Many consumers do not dig deeper into the numbers, and just always assume that bigger means better.  But, sometimes that is not the case.  Do some research on the performance of iPhone 6, and the top of the line Android Phones released this year, and you will see that the iPhone (with the smaller numbers on its spec) out performs them in every benchmark on the CPU, and destroys them on every benchmark for the CPU.  The article I read, placed the blame on the Android OS, stating that it doesn't take advantage of the hardware that it runs on.  That could raise the question of whether these console OS's are affecing performance of the games as well?

Many factors, but, in the TLDR, specs don't always matter, it is how those hardware pieces are engineered, and how they work together.  It is also how the developers approach and take advantage of the hardware.

But very few WiiU titles are 1080p/60fps :p In-fact Smash is the only AAA title Nintendo themselves have made that is, their standard is 720p.



t3mporary_126 said:
Giggs_11 said:
OP: "The game runs on 1080p 60fps"
Salted user: "Probably it's 720p"
User: "No, it's confirmed for 1080p"
Salted user: "Then it's 60fps"
User: "It's also confirmed for 60fps"
Salted user: "That's BS, like the Nintendo rep who said MK8 was 1080p"
User: "Nintendo themselves confirmed it on the Nintendo Direct"
Salted user : "Oh I'll believe it when Digital foundry confirms it" or "That's not a big deal" or "show me a game that really pushes the hardware doing that" or "it's a small side scrolling fighter" or blah blah blah.


To be fair, this is a heavily generalized summary, but it still made me chuckle

Yes it is. I was purposedly a bit extremist, because a few salty users (not all of them) are also very extremist. So I satyrized them a bit. :D



I don't care, to be blunt. I'll judge the game as a technical achievement by how it looks and feels when I play it - not by some numbers.



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Well we now know the WiiU has better games and now better resolution and framerate also :D



Great news, this games is already on my list if i purchase Wii U in the near future.

Well 60 fps is a must, giving the resolution to perform 1080p is even better. With 8 player locally can play together on the same screen is truly impressive, although the graphic is simple and not very demanding like Bayoneta 2 or X. I believe there are some tricks to maintain the resolution and frame rate with 8 player. My theory, maybe they will lower the graphic detail or lower some texture in some stage or character if the player play with more then 4 player.

But for know i just enjoy the good news and wait for digital foundry for their article. :)



t3mporary_126 said:

I swear i think I need to make the thread title say "I appreciate that Smash Bros is 1080p and 60 fps" or something so people won't comment  that isn't even hard to do this on a fighting game like Smash Bros.

The point of the thread is that it's awesome to have the first HD Smash Bros game in 1080p and 60 fps. Not that it will be GOTY, the best looking game, or something the other console could or could not handle.

Geez.

But those points are all true lol. It will be GOTY, it is the best looking fighting game, and those other consoles can only dream of local 8 player gaming.

We do need to be realistic however. Only Smash and WW HD are true 1080p Wii U games (not counting eshop). Smash is a fighting game that does look beautiful, but it definitely is not as complex (graphically speaking) as a FPS or 3D Action/Adventure game. The Wii U cannot keep up with anything XB1 or PS4 on either the CPU or GPU. It's fact. But with enough give and take here and there you can reach this "magical" 1080/60p. EA or Ubisoft or Activision and even Nintendo could make every game be 1080/60p, but they would not all look pretty which is why they shoot for a lower res while keeping the graphics fidelity up. I would love every game to be 1080/60p, but I will take a lower resolution if the graphics fidelity can be upped and the framerate remain steady.

I do take issue with developers (3rd parties) who gimp one console because they were too lazy to eek out every bit of performance all in the name of "parity."

 

tl;dr 1 game @ 1080/60p does not = more powerful than other consoles.



nvm



Wildcard36qs said:
t3mporary_126 said:

I swear i think I need to make the thread title say "I appreciate that Smash Bros is 1080p and 60 fps" or something so people won't comment  that isn't even hard to do this on a fighting game like Smash Bros.

The point of the thread is that it's awesome to have the first HD Smash Bros game in 1080p and 60 fps. Not that it will be GOTY, the best looking game, or something the other console could or could not handle.

Geez.

But those points are all true lol. It will be GOTY, it is the best looking fighting game, and those other consoles can only dream of local 8 player gaming.

We do need to be realistic however. Only Smash and WW HD are true 1080p Wii U games (not counting eshop). Smash is a fighting game that does look beautiful, but it definitely is not as complex (graphically speaking) as a FPS or 3D Action/Adventure game. The Wii U cannot keep up with anything XB1 or PS4 on either the CPU or GPU. It's fact. But with enough give and take here and there you can reach this "magical" 1080/60p. EA or Ubisoft or Activision and even Nintendo could make every game be 1080/60p, but they would not all look pretty which is why they shoot for a lower res while keeping the graphics fidelity up. I would love every game to be 1080/60p, but I will take a lower resolution if the graphics fidelity can be upped and the framerate remain steady.

I do take issue with developers (3rd parties) who gimp one console because they were too lazy to eek out every bit of performance all in the name of "parity."

 

tl;dr 1 game @ 1080/60p does not = more powerful than other consoles.

Damn, you got a wise comment, i give u my respect.  :)