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Forums - General Discussion - Evolution is Religion. Big bang is a creed.

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zarx said:
tiffac said:
Soriku said:
tiffac said:

But that's kinda like the same thing, not sure but its there, so it has to be. A hunch. It doesn't need to be bad, I mean hunches are sometimes close to the truth than we think. So its cool~

Kinda like...

 

Okay too much of this show is maybe bad for my health lol!

It's not a hunch. Look up the definition of hunch:

a feeling or guess based on intuition rather than known facts.
Evolution and the Big Bang are based on facts.

And here I thought it was only a casual word for theory.

But the singularity where did it come from that caused the Big Bang though? And I already digested evolution it was quite tasty.

As far as I know there currently isn't any workable theory for anything prior to the big bang. To explain why I think I should explain a bit about scientific theory and how it works (as I understand it anyway, I could be wrong I am not a scientist) at least on a simple level. You see a scientific theory has to be based on observable phenomina and be able to make falsifiable predictions of some form of test (eg an experiment or an observation of a naturally occurring phenomena) amoung other things. Now falsifiableis a key point to note, that means that whatever test you use to verify the theory has to be able to "fail" and have a result that doesn't match your prediction. All scientific knowledge is refutable given enough evidence, it should be understood that it is the best current explination based on currently available information. But also keep in mind that any scientific theory has to be independantly verified with verifiable tests and observations, so even if it's not the necesserily complete picture it is reliable for making predictions based on the available data.

So for the Big Bang theory that posits that everything in the current observable universe originated from a central point and "exploded" out to form the universe as it currently exists. The theory began to explain why distant galaxies appeared to be moving away from the earth. The theory predicts that matter in the universe should be moving away from a central point etc. Edwin Hubble observed that the redshift effect could be used to mesure the relative distances of cosmalogical bodies (eg stars and galaxies) from the earth. This observation led to the observation that the other galaxies were moving further away from our vantage point. Which is consistant with a universe that "exploded" out from a central point. Additionally the discovery of cosmic microwave background radiation. Now that is a very simplified version, I don't even pretend to understand the full theory and there are a wide veriaty of different peices of evidence that scientists have used to verify the theory over the years. Oh and interesting side note the theory that preposed what became the big bang theory was a catholic priest and scientist named Georges Lemaître.

Now as for where the singelarity that created the big bang came from. It is impossible to observe or test anything that happened before the big bang as we currently understand it. After all as far as we currently know everything we can currently observe or test was created at the big bang. All matter, energy, and even time is belived to have been created at that point.

Now to use a relatively simple analogy as a TL:DR as this ended up far longer than I expected. Lets say that that you come home to find that your front door has been kicked in. Now you use your past experiances and the available information to make a hypothesis that someone has broken in and robbed your house. That is a safe assumption I think, but there are other possibilities so you devise a way of verifing your hypothesis. Pretty simple you just have to check your stuff to see if anything is missing. Apon entering your house you find that your TV is missing. Ok so your hypothesis accurately predicted that something was stolen from your house. Now as you didn't observe this first hand you can't be 100% sure, after all while it is possible this is all a setup for a punked style reality TV show that is increadibly unlikely. So you conclude you should call the cops and report the break in and theft. And there was no need to identify who the thief was, how they got there, or why they robbed you to use your theory to conclude you needed to call the cops.

Oh bro, you don't need to worry, you guys have been awesome with this but I'm just dead curious on the starting point of the Big Bang, the singularity. Everything has to start from somewhere. So my curiosity is mostly on that part. I mean no one can test it, observe it and such, so its quite the mystery but accepted fact nonetheless.



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tiffac said:

Oh bro, you don't need to worry, you guys have been awesome with this but I'm just dead curious on the starting point of the Big Bang, the singularity. Everything has to start from somewhere. So my curiosity is mostly on that part. I mean no one can test it, observe it and such, so its quite the mystery but accepted fact nonetheless.


As I said it's not actually accepted as fact, that topic is still a point of debate. The big bang theory only suggests that the observable universe expanded from a single point.  The nature of that point is still very much up for debate. As for everything having to start from somewhere that is still up to debate as well, it is true that everything in the known universe comes from some something as far as we can tell. But so far scientists have never observed true nothingness, even the depths of space is filled with radiation etc caused by the big bang. For all we know stuff does spontaneously appears from nothing, there is no way of knowing without observing true nothingness. None of the so called laws of physics that exist in the known universe necessarily existed before the big bang. Time, gravity, causality, entropy, the absolute speed of light in a vacuum all may not have existed before that point.

It should be noted that the big bang theory isn't actually the name for the currently accepted model. the far less catchily titled Lambda-CDM model is what we use these days. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda-CDM_model.



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zarx said:
tiffac said:

Oh bro, you don't need to worry, you guys have been awesome with this but I'm just dead curious on the starting point of the Big Bang, the singularity. Everything has to start from somewhere. So my curiosity is mostly on that part. I mean no one can test it, observe it and such, so its quite the mystery but accepted fact nonetheless.


As I said it's not actually accepted as fact, that topic is still a point of debate. The big bang theory only suggests that the observable universe expanded from a single point.  The nature of that point is still very much up for debate. As for everything having to start from somewhere that is still up to debate as well, it is true that everything in the known universe comes from some something as far as we can tell. But so far scientists have never observed true nothingness, even the depths of space is filled with radiation etc caused by the big bang. For all we know stuff does spontaneously appears from nothing, there is no way of knowing without observing true nothingness. None of the so called laws of physics that exist in the known universe necessarily existed before the big bang. Time, gravity, causality, entropy, the absolute speed of light in a vacuum all may not have existed before that point.

It should be noted that the big bang theory isn't actually the name for the currently accepted model. the far less catchily titled Lambda-CDM model is what we use these days. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda-CDM_model.

Bro the link you provided is only showing me this: Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name :( :( :( :( :(



tiffac said:

Bro the link you provided is only showing me this: Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name :( :( :( :( :(


opps I added a period at the end

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda-CDM_model



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

zarx said:
tiffac said:

Bro the link you provided is only showing me this: Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name :( :( :( :( :(


opps I added a period at the end

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda-CDM_model

Awesomeness! I didn't even noticed the period in the end hahahaha xD



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tiffac said:
DonFerrari said:
tiffac said:

But that's kinda like the same thing, not sure but its there, so it has to be. A hunch. It doesn't need to be bad, I mean hunches are sometimes close to the truth than we think. So its cool~

Kinda like...

Okay too much of this show is maybe bad for my health lol!


I'm not certain how can you associate observation of natural phenomenon, detail describing, mathematical models and exaustive test with "hunch" (altough sometimes the source of the first guess or where to look could have been a hunch). Cientific Method isn't a hunch, as much as Dinossaurs haven't been caried in the ark.


Yeah the Dinos got left by Noah must be too big to carry at that time. Where was the Enterprise when you need it lol!

But no one is certain of the singullarity right? So that's got to be a hunch. Aliens too :)


Well if they had pokeballs it would be easier as well, or maybe shrinkening rays.

There is no certainty, because science doesn't dwelve on 100% certainty on theories (for that we would use "law" that could also in the future be proved wrong). And about aliens, there is a great possibility of inteligent life outside of earth, the big number of possibilities of climates in the several galaxies awards that. Now about human finding alien life that we could communicate that would be hard to see during our life time.

If Big Bang Theory is a hunch for you I can't even fanthom what God would be since there is 0 evidence in the observable nature that could prove anything about god. The only "document" or "proof" is a old book that could even be a prank.



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