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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Sunset overdrive releases in 6/7 days; Dismal pre orders

Jaywood2010 on 22 October 2014
BMaker11 said:

You really dont know the numbers between bundled and not-bundled so you shouldnt refute something as fact that you dont know.

Secondly bundles are viable business.  Destiny, TitanFall, Assassin's Creed, LittleBigPlanet, Gran Turismo, Uncharted, Halo, Fable, InFamous, Killzone, Mario Kart, Mario Bros, and this list goes on and on has all been bundled. And outside of TitanFall, all of them have been bundled through holidays.  IN fact i know many of them were bundled multiple holidays.  Its a nice way to push hardware by giving out some of your best games, and there is always multiple bundles.  And in ways you could consider these games, system-sellers.

The bundle argument is one of the oldest arguments on VGC that needs to stop.




       

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alabtrosMyster on 22 October 2014

It's because it releases on XB1, people are waiting for the 1080p solid frame rate PS4 version to come out!



LudicrousSpeed on 22 October 2014
BMaker11 said:

And right on time, you chime in with your textbook sarcasm that completely misses the point. It's not that "no one wants Forza". Just don't talk about how great the game "sold" when the overwhelming majority of the sales are free copies. Especially when the game is bundled with every console during the Christmas season, when console sales are the highest during the year (not just some random time during the year, when console sales are much lower).

Never said Forza was unpopular or that it wouldn't sell on its own. But it's a fact that the millions of copies "sold" for Forza 2, 3, 4, and 5 were free copies (unlike Destiny, for example, which you still had to pay for, albeit saving $10). Until we see the game either A. not get a bundle at all (looking at Forza 2) or B. be bundled much later than the holiday season (3, 4, and 5 were all holiday releases, with 5 still being bundled with Kinect RIGHT NOW), we have no way to verify if "Forza could do 2-3M on its own", when 4M Xboxes are sold in the last 8 weeks of the year, coincidentally right when the game is released and subsequently bundled with every console. And the game just so happens to top out at 4-5M copies sold.

All I was saying was that it was a bad example to defend or even have as a comparison, but you just gotta have your one up, don't you?

I, personally, don't think SO will bomb. Insomniac doesn't make $100M budget games, so it doesn't need to sell 5M to make a profit. With the install base the XBone has right now, I'd say it'd comfortably sell 1.5-1.75M

Judging from the lengthy response, I think it was right on point. Sorry that such low hanging fruit on the argument tree completely destroys your "but.. but... bundles!" theory.

I do like that bolded, underlined, and italicized "fact" you threw right in the middle of your unsubstantiated, opinionated, agenda driven narrative though. So it's a fact, then? Can you please list exactly how the sales break down for each version of the game, then? I mean, so many different ways you can buy Forza. Since it's a fact, surely you can provide sources from Microsoft or Turn10 rather easily. I'll be on pins and needles awaiting the response.

Also, try lightening up a bit. The whole idea that a game doesn't sell as well as people think because it's bundled is, at its core, a stupid idea. Nothing wrong with pointing that out.



WiiStation360 on 22 October 2014

In the two weeks after Sunset Overdrive comes out, the following are being released for XB1:
- New Assassins Creed
- New Call of Duty
- Halo: MCC

I assume most XBox One owners have preordered at least one of those games. Unless reviews are great for this game, I assume it will quickly be forgotten. I hope it does well, but it is hard to stand out with a new IP in the fall with so many AAA titles being released.



LudicrousSpeed on 22 October 2014

Yep, should have launched it sooner or pushed it into early 2015.

Maybe it will have legs though.



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BMaker11 on 22 October 2014
LudicrousSpeed said:
BMaker11 said:

And right on time, you chime in with your textbook sarcasm that completely misses the point. It's not that "no one wants Forza". Just don't talk about how great the game "sold" when the overwhelming majority of the sales are free copies. Especially when the game is bundled with every console during the Christmas season, when console sales are the highest during the year (not just some random time during the year, when console sales are much lower).

Never said Forza was unpopular or that it wouldn't sell on its own. But it's a fact that the millions of copies "sold" for Forza 2, 3, 4, and 5 were free copies (unlike Destiny, for example, which you still had to pay for, albeit saving $10). Until we see the game either A. not get a bundle at all (looking at Forza 2) or B. be bundled much later than the holiday season (3, 4, and 5 were all holiday releases, with 5 still being bundled with Kinect RIGHT NOW), we have no way to verify if "Forza could do 2-3M on its own", when 4M Xboxes are sold in the last 8 weeks of the year, coincidentally right when the game is released and subsequently bundled with every console. And the game just so happens to top out at 4-5M copies sold.

All I was saying was that it was a bad example to defend or even have as a comparison, but you just gotta have your one up, don't you?

I, personally, don't think SO will bomb. Insomniac doesn't make $100M budget games, so it doesn't need to sell 5M to make a profit. With the install base the XBone has right now, I'd say it'd comfortably sell 1.5-1.75M

Judging from the lengthy response, I think it was right on point. Sorry that such low hanging fruit on the argument tree completely destroys your "but.. but... bundles!" theory.

I do like that bolded, underlined, and italicized "fact" you threw right in the middle of your unsubstantiated, opinionated, agenda driven narrative though. So it's a fact, then? Can you please list exactly how the sales break down for each version of the game, then? I mean, so many different ways you can buy Forza. Since it's a fact, surely you can provide sources from Microsoft or Turn10 rather easily. I'll be on pins and needles awaiting the response.

Also, try lightening up a bit. The whole idea that a game doesn't sell as well as people think because it's bundled is, at its core, a stupid idea. Nothing wrong with pointing that out.

That fact that those games' sales mostly coincide right with console sales during the time period they were bundled with every console is all I need to know. Such an agenda right? 3.5M 360s sold Late November - Dec 2011 with Forza 4 packed into every console. "Only" 4.25M copies of Forza 4 sold LTD. 515k launch in late October. It stands to reason that if 3.5M 360s have Forza 4 packed in, Forza 4 would "sell" at least 3.5M, right? Much agenda. Such unsubstantiated.



Jaywood2010 on 22 October 2014
BMaker11 said:

 


Are you even doing research by this point?


Forza 4

Global First Ten Weeks (Units)

Week EndingWeekWeeklyChangeTotal
15th October 2011 1 515,859 N/A 515,859
22nd October 2011 2 237,149 -54.0% 753,008
29th October 2011 3 116,097 -51.0% 869,105
05th November 2011 4 87,028 -25.0% 956,133
12th November 2011 5 68,516 -21.3% 1,024,649
19th November 2011 6 58,660 -14.4% 1,083,309
26th November 2011 7 76,976 31.2% 1,160,285
03rd December 2011 8 98,046 27.4% 1,258,331
10th December 2011 9 135,376 38.1% 1,393,707
17th December 2011 10 159,048 17.5% 1,552,755

 

Global Annual Summary (Units)

YearYearlyChangeTotal
2011 1,821,453 N/A 1,821,453
2012 1,907,030 4.7% 3,728,483
2013 404,739 -78.8% 4,133,222
2014 114,615 -71.7% 4,247,837



       

LudicrousSpeed on 22 October 2014

When you have a fact Jay, you don't really need research.

BMaker11 said:

That fact that those games' sales mostly coincide right with console sales during the time period they were bundled with every console is all I need to know. Such an agenda right? 3.5M 360s sold Late November - Dec 2011 with Forza 4 packed into every console. "Only" 4.25M copies of Forza 4 sold LTD. 515k launch in late October. It stands to reason that if 3.5M 360s have Forza 4 packed in, Forza 4 would "sell" at least 3.5M, right? Much agenda. Such unsubstantiated.

Jay already pointed out how laughably incorrect this is, but allow me to explain other reasons why it's wrong so that you maybe avoid this in the future.

1. Your theory assumes that every console sold is the bundle. This is far from the truth. So PS4 sold around 550k in the September NPD. Does this mean at least 550k copies of Destiny are bundled? No. You still have the other SKU. If I go into a Target or Walmart right now and look at 360's, I may see... a 4GB without Kinect. A 4GB with Kinect. A 250GB console with no games. A bundle with Tomb Raider and Halo 4. Or a Minecraft bundle. Or others. Same logic applies here.

2. It still doesn't address the fact that the logic behind this "bubuu bundles!" excuse is just silly. You can't discredit a games legs or sales because of bundles. The point of a bundle is to give consumers value. A game included in a bundle should be applauded for pushing hardware, not penalized for being in the bundle.

All Jay said is the Forza franchise has legs. Your response is its legs shouldn't count because MS had the audacity to bundle it. How does that make any sense? Clearly people want the games or they wouldn't buy the bundle.



thx1139 on 22 October 2014

I dont pre-order physical disks any longer. Every single game on our Xbox One has been bought digitally.



Its libraries that sell systems not a single game.