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Forums - Music Discussion - Are metal heads just hipsters in black?

CladInShadows said:

Metrium said:

Meanwhile bands like Metalica are extremely well known and popular but no one feel like they changed their sound and sold out to get to this point, so metal heads love them. 


Wait, what?

Metallica is one of the original "they sold out" bands. They were praised for their first 4 albums, and changed their sound quite a bit towards a more mainstream one with their 5th and 6th albums. They lost a ton of original fans and "underground credibility" while gaining mainstream fans tenfold.

Indeed, to say the original Metallica fanbase stuck with them through their sellout, is disingeuous.  They just catered to a new demographic.  Kill 'em All, Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets and And Justice for All, were the golden years of Metallica.  Everything else is crap.



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Psychotic said:

I mean no matter how you look at it, most of modern romance is better than Romeo & Juliet in every way imaginable, yet still we all somehow consider Shakespeare's work valuable... it's strange, huh?


wat...

Shakespeare's works are highly regarded for many, many reasons. I barely even consider influence to be one of them, although his creativity and uses of imagery through the english language could be called "influence" I suppose. Even still, saying that most modern romance, which is generally formulaic tripe, is better than Romeo and Juliet? 

You sir, have no credibility to speak about art. Feel free to say you dislike Shakespeare, but don't pretend like his works don't hold immense literary merit.



mornelithe said:
CladInShadows said:

Metrium said:

Meanwhile bands like Metalica are extremely well known and popular but no one feel like they changed their sound and sold out to get to this point, so metal heads love them. 


Wait, what?

Metallica is one of the original "they sold out" bands. They were praised for their first 4 albums, and changed their sound quite a bit towards a more mainstream one with their 5th and 6th albums. They lost a ton of original fans and "underground credibility" while gaining mainstream fans tenfold.

Indeed, to say the original Metallica fanbase stuck with them through their sellout, is disingeuous.  They just catered to a new demographic.  Kill 'em All, Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets and And Justice for All, were the golden years of Metallica.  Everything else is crap.

I do like a song or two from some of the albums following And Justice, but I generally agree.  I was never too into Metallica though.  I was always a little more interested in Testament, who went in a heavier direction when Metallica was going in the mainstream direction.



CladInShadows said:
mornelithe said:

Indeed, to say the original Metallica fanbase stuck with them through their sellout, is disingeuous.  They just catered to a new demographic.  Kill 'em All, Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets and And Justice for All, were the golden years of Metallica.  Everything else is crap.

I do like a song or two from some of the albums following And Justice, but I generally agree.  I was never too into Metallica though.  I was always a little more interested in Testament, who went in a heavier direction when Metallica was going in the mainstream direction.

Yeah, I was into Metallica much more when I was younger.  Now there's much heavier metal I prefer, Macabre, Destroyer 666, Angel Corpse, Vital Remains, Nunslaughter etc... so many awesome bands that you'll never hear on the radio heh.



mornelithe said:
CladInShadows said:
mornelithe said:

Indeed, to say the original Metallica fanbase stuck with them through their sellout, is disingeuous.  They just catered to a new demographic.  Kill 'em All, Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets and And Justice for All, were the golden years of Metallica.  Everything else is crap.

I do like a song or two from some of the albums following And Justice, but I generally agree.  I was never too into Metallica though.  I was always a little more interested in Testament, who went in a heavier direction when Metallica was going in the mainstream direction.

Yeah, I was into Metallica much more when I was younger.  Now there's much heavier metal I prefer, Macabre, Destroyer 666, Angel Corpse, Vital Remains, Nunslaughter etc... so many awesome bands that you'll never hear on the radio heh.

Yep.  Metallica has a massive legacy, which is why they are still brought up on a regular basis.  But when it comes down to it, hundreds of bands came in years ago to fill that void left by Metallica chasing mainstream success.  But still, it would be cool if they released a straight up thrash album again.  Death Magnetic was a step in the right direction, but still sounds like Metallica are fumbling around in the dark.

I'm super excited about the new At The Gates album about to drop in a couple weeks.



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mornelithe said:
CladInShadows said:

Metrium said:

Meanwhile bands like Metalica are extremely well known and popular but no one feel like they changed their sound and sold out to get to this point, so metal heads love them. 


Wait, what?

Metallica is one of the original "they sold out" bands. They were praised for their first 4 albums, and changed their sound quite a bit towards a more mainstream one with their 5th and 6th albums. They lost a ton of original fans and "underground credibility" while gaining mainstream fans tenfold.

Indeed, to say the original Metallica fanbase stuck with them through their sellout, is disingeuous.  They just catered to a new demographic.  Kill 'em All, Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets and And Justice for All, were the golden years of Metallica.  Everything else is crap.


If your saying that the black album is crap, then I can't disagree more with you. It is much more mainstream but it's great and I've rarely heard anyone say otherwise. Not much came after it, that I agree. They are more commercial now but the band is still loved by metalheads as far as I know.



 

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Final Ultimate Legendary Earth Power Super Max Justice Future Miracle Dream Beautiful Galaxy Big Bang Little Bang Sunrise Starlight Infinite Fabulous Totally Final Wonderful Arrow...FIRE! - Wonder-Red (The Wonderful101)

 

Metrium said:
mornelithe said:

Indeed, to say the original Metallica fanbase stuck with them through their sellout, is disingeuous.  They just catered to a new demographic.  Kill 'em All, Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets and And Justice for All, were the golden years of Metallica.  Everything else is crap.


If your saying that the black album is crap, then I can't disagree more with you. It is much more mainstream but it's great and I've rarely heard anyone say otherwise. Not much came after it, that I agree. They are more commercial now but the band is still loved by metalheads as far as I know.

Yeah, I'm saying the black album was crap, and signified a major shift in their music, from what made them hugely popular in the first place  It's fine, not everyone likes the same music, and it's not like their current fanbase is smaller than their original.  Just different.



Metrium said:
mornelithe said:
CladInShadows said:

Metrium said:

Meanwhile bands like Metalica are extremely well known and popular but no one feel like they changed their sound and sold out to get to this point, so metal heads love them. 


Wait, what?

Metallica is one of the original "they sold out" bands. They were praised for their first 4 albums, and changed their sound quite a bit towards a more mainstream one with their 5th and 6th albums. They lost a ton of original fans and "underground credibility" while gaining mainstream fans tenfold.

Indeed, to say the original Metallica fanbase stuck with them through their sellout, is disingeuous.  They just catered to a new demographic.  Kill 'em All, Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets and And Justice for All, were the golden years of Metallica.  Everything else is crap.


If your saying that the black album is crap, then I can't disagree more with you. It is much more mainstream but it's great and I've rarely heard anyone say otherwise. Not much came after it, that I agree. They are more commercial now but the band is still loved by metalheads as far as I know.

If you spent any time on Metal forums (which I do), this opinion would not seem so foreign to you.  The Black Album is where many old fans jumped off.  Load just cemented this.



sundin13 said:


wat...

Shakespeare's works are highly regarded for many, many reasons. I barely even consider influence to be one of them, although his creativity and uses of imagery through the english language could be called "influence" I suppose. Even still, saying that most modern romance, which is generally formulaic tripe, is better than Romeo and Juliet? 

You sir, have no credibility to speak about art. Feel free to say you dislike Shakespeare, but don't pretend like his works don't hold immense literary merit.


Until you tell me in what exactly is Hamlet better than Game of Thrones for example, From the perspective of a 21th centruy person. I'll regard you simply like another "it was good in the year 1714, therefore it's good in 2014 too" people.



Psychotic said:


Until you tell me in what exactly is Hamlet better than Game of Thrones for example, From the perspective of a 21th centruy person. I'll regard you simply like another "it was good in the year 1714, therefore it's good in 2014 too" people.


"Until you tell me that one of the best books of all time is better than another one of the best books of all time..."

wat...

You go from comparing Romeo and Juliet to "most modern romance", to comparing Hamlet to one of the best books of the modern age. Game of Thrones is amazing on many levels and it excells in its politics and complex, interwoven narrative, while Hamlet is more of a character study which excells at characterization (the psycholgical aspect of Hamlet is absolutely brilliant, and the way the characters act is very nuanced and shows a complex emotional profile) and dialogue/monologue. Just because they are both about politics on the surface level does not make them comparable.

I would not argue that Hamlet is better than Game of Thrones (but I would also not argue the inverse), but that in no way discredits Shakespeare. You claimed that Romeo and Juliet is worse than most modern romances and as soon as I challenged you, you changed your argument. Additionally, you haven't given me even one semblance of a reason why Shakespeare is inferior to modern writers, you just asserted that you were right and asked me to prove you were wrong, but the burden of proof is on the accuser (you).