By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - The Qur'an Exposed Thread

 

Is Nintentacle Religionintentacle?

Yes. 6 75.00%
 
No. 1 12.50%
 
Maybe so. 1 12.50%
 
Total:8
Nintentacle on 19 October 2014
Wright said:

Religion is flawed, but this is because humans are also flawed.

Or perhaps people see flaws in religion because they are flawed themselves.



Around the Network
Nintentacle on 19 October 2014
avais1993 said:

There you go pal, a video explaining it, full with references and everything, have fun looking it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRw25KZG0vE

 

if you want a better video with a better explanation

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPZjDErZIBo

I think you should tell me where Muhammad is in Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, and/or the Gospel (Something that cannot be interpreted as an Old Testament Prophet, or Jesus, preferably) instead of other people.



taus90 on 20 October 2014
Soriku said:
taus90 said:
The religious fanatics and the people who question religious belief of others, in my books are on the same page.


What a strange opinion considering fanatics (including fanatics that question other religions) actually kill people, while those who simply question do not.

No, they're not on the same page at all. Religions should be questioned - critically, harshly.

and the irony is that innocent people are killed by these fanatics because they were aggitated and harshly critiqued. see its not difficult to understand.. and what these so called people is oblivious to the fact that people who follows these religion quietly are pushed over the edge and become fanatics



taus90 on 20 October 2014
Soriku said:
taus90 said:
Soriku said:
taus90 said:
The religious fanatics and the people who question religious belief of others, in my books are on the same page.


What a strange opinion considering fanatics (including fanatics that question other religions) actually kill people, while those who simply question do not.

No, they're not on the same page at all. Religions should be questioned - critically, harshly.

and the irony is that innocent people are killed by these fanatics because they were aggitated and harshly critiqued. see its not difficult to understand.. and what these so called people is oblivious to the fact that people who follows these religion quietly are pushed over the edge and become fanatics


Are you sure about that? In some Muslim countries, even if you don't heavily critique Islam, you can still get in serious trouble if they find out you're an apostate.

Also, many of these fanatics need no harsh criticism at all to become fanatics. They become extremists because they take their scriptures too seriously for whatever reason, and are seriously brainwashed. Criticism will trigger a response, but they're already over the edge. So why are you blaming the victims?

and ur basing ur opinion just on "whatever reason" without taking initiate to know what those reasons are. and using example of a small group of religious people who belong to patraitic belief, which could be applied to every religion in the world (be it christians, Hindu, Jews etc) but the only difference is how you precieve what is shown to you by the media and the news which sells.. but if we were to talk about extremist in a particular religion then i think every religion or society requires a catalyst to trigger it.. be it black people slavery, Hitlers ruthless obsession over killing jews, Jews and Palenstine conflict, invading iraq or be it formation of alqaeda. the only difference between my argument and your argument is that u see it with your preconcieved mind set what NEWS is showing to you rather than actually researching and understanding who these people affected people are and do they really care about religion..being a photo journalist myself I have travelled to Sudan, Iraq, Pakistan and sri lanka and you will be suprised to see how people over there are different from these fanatics and their only advice is dont poke these fanatics it will just evoke them and innocent people will end up in cross fire.

And i never blamed victims, asking for a logical explanation for a made up illogical belief from a mentally unstabled person is asking for a trouble and no man in his right sense would do that, and as to people who ask and state their contradicting opinion on such matter will have a bad time. and again religion will be blamed



avais1993 on 20 October 2014
Nintentacle said:
avais1993 said:

There you go pal, a video explaining it, full with references and everything, have fun looking it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRw25KZG0vE

 

if you want a better video with a better explanation

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPZjDErZIBo

I think you should tell me where Muhammad is in Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, and/or the Gospel (Something that cannot be interpreted as an Old Testament Prophet, or Jesus, preferably) instead of other people.



Why should i tell you? i'm not a Muslim Scholar, i'm simply a Muslim, to answer your questions you should take them to scholars, someone educated in this field who can give you a better answer, like in the video. If you want to understand then get your information from the best source.



Bradford City Fan for life

Recent favourite games: Ni No Kuni, Fifa 13, Batman Arkham City

Best games of all time: Pokemon Red, Dragon Warrior 3, The last of us, Uncharted 2 and 3

3ds friend code add me: 1950-8131-6814

PSN ID: Mr_Vezzo_Khanny - add to start a clan in the last of us mutiplayer

Around the Network
LurkerJ on 20 October 2014
VXIII said:

I'm sorry that I'm not interested in going into so many details. In general, being the most merciful is one side of God "character". God also describes himself as "Allah is Exalted in Might and Owner of Retribution." God is merciful to people who are proven worthy and seek his mercy in this life. Even though God would like everyone to be good, that's why every sin can be redeemed, but humans were given free will, some choose for God not to be merciful on them (by their actions). The reward is promised to be worth it, and the punishment is only fair... From God perspective of course.

Being objective, Eternal punishment is never fair. Allah's perspective is messed up. Owner of Retribution? Allah seems to be more humanized than I thought. He/she takes things too personally. A just judge shouldn't do that. Allah can't be just if he/she seeks retribution.

And yes, in Quran God mention some people that would have preferred if they weren't ever created. From that angle God indeed is not merciful on them, only because they were proven unworthy. God is also just, the "ignorant" humanity was given a way to determine and make decisions (mind and consciousness). Again God is most merciful only under certain circumstances.

Allah is not just, see above. If Allah isn't merciful at all times, he/she isn't the most merciful. Allah's desire to inflict unjust eternal punishment on horrible people strips him/her from both titles; Just and merciful. 

Animals, you are looking at this subject from humanitarian angle. Let look at it as if we were animals. They don't have the awareness and consciousness that people have (which could be the meaning of the "Trust"). Hunting one another is not a "sin" as they have no way to know good fom evil. Their "suffering" is not really suffering it only reflects the nature of this world, they are not a subject of God testing. They are not the "point" from God perspective... And I have no knowledge of what is supposed to be their fate in the eternal afterlife to be honest.

Do zebras feel pain when they're hunt? Yes. Why is that pain necessary? I am sorry but Just saying "it's not really suffering" doesn't make the point you think you are making.

As of you weren't asked to hold the trust, I believe it is the nature of humanity that was asked (the way humanity was created) not every human. That how I always understood it.

Hard to say anything to that because this is pure speculation on your part and you could be very wrong.

Ignorance might be the nature of humanity, but humans were given ways to overcome it.

And some of those who don't overcome it will be eternally punished.

--------------------

Sorry if I'm not going to comment further. I just think most of what you're asking about should be self answered.

Bluntly speaking, I'd rather have no answers and avoid Islam. Your answers aren't convincing at all, sorry. I am not bashing. It's not your fault Allah makes it hard to believe in him. Thank you for your time. I truly appreciate it. :)


Jumpinbeans on 20 October 2014

deleted



HollyGamer on 20 October 2014
Nintentacle said:
comflash2 said:
Nintentacle said:

I am talking about from a Christian point of view.

The Jesus I believe in is the Son of God (See my above post responding to Leadified)

The Jesus in Islam that is sent to convince people that he is not the Son of God, and promotes Islam/Mahdi is basically the Second Beast in Revelation 13 who preforms miracles to convince people of the Antichrist, and, if it were possible, deceiving the very elect, or true Christians according to Matthew 24:24. False Christ preforming miracles?)

Matthew 24:24 reads, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

 

Mahdi can't perform miracle. He just a leader that unite the muslim. Dajjal is the one can perform miracle. I think u need to refer back to your source and confirm either u really mean Mahdi or Dajjal as antichrist. As i told you, Muslim (including Mahdi) love Jesis Christ and we agree with mirace given to him by Allah (raise the dead etc). Here is some reference the miracle of Jesus in Quran that i copied below. The different between Muslim and Christian merely on either Jesus is God. Jesus himself in the bible never claim he is he god. The church interpretation is the one claiming Jesus is the god. I heard multiple Christian scholar agree with that statement (in debate) but they claim Jesus use different way to hint his follower that he is god. I don't want to hurt any christian feeling here, because Quran ask Muslim to talk to the people of book (jew and christian) about similarities and not differences. Ali-Imran 3:64 "Say, "O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah ." But if they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]."

Miracle of Jesus in Quran:

“…and We made her (Mary) and her son (Jesus) a sign for the worlds.” (Quran 21:91)

“And We gave unto Jesus, son of Mary, clear miracles” (Quran 2:87)

“When the disciples said: O Jesus, son of Mary!  Is your Lord able to send down for us a table spread with food from heaven?  He said: Observe your duty to God, if ye are true believers.  They said: We desire to eat of it and our hearts be at rest, and that We may know that you have spoken truth to us, and that We may be witnesses thereof.  Jesus, son of Mary, said: 'O God, our Lord, send down for us a Table laden with food out of heaven, that shall be for us a recurring festival, the first and last of us, and a miracle from You.  And provide us our sustenance, for You are the best of providers!” (Quran 5:112-114)

“He shall speak to people while still in the cradle, and in manhood, and he shall be from the righteous.” (Quran 3:46)

“I am indeed a slave of God.  He has given me the Book and made me a Prophet, and He has made me blessed wherever I may be.  And He has enjoined upon me prayers, and to pay the alms, as long as I live and (He has made me) kind to my mother, and He has not made me insolent, unblessed.  And may Peace be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and on the Day I shall be raised to life.” (Quran 19:30-33)

“I create for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with God’s permission.” (Quran 3:49)

“I also heal the blind and the leper.” (Quran 3:49)

“…and I bring to life the dead, by the permission of God.” (Quran 3:49)

“I inform you too of what things you eat, and what you store up in your houses.  Surely in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.” (Quran 3:49)

I am saying that the Muslim Jesus (It's not the same thing: Christians believe he is the Son of God, was crucified, and rose from the dead, Muslims believe he is just a prophet, and was never crucified/rose from the dead) is th Christian False Prophet. We think the Muslim Jesus (Who is just a prophet) is not the true Jesus.

The False Prophet will preform miracles and decieve many into accepting the Anti-Christ, and make everyone get a mark on their right hand or forehead that lets you buy and sell, and make all worship the Anti-Chrirst. You will be killed if you don't worship the Anti-Christ, but you will go to the Lake of Fire forever if you do.

Like I've said before, It's very similar.

Antichrist: A person of Satan who conquers all nations, makes a one world religion, kills Jews and Christians, peace covenant with Israel.

Mahdi: A person of God who conquers all nations, makes a one world religion, kills Jews and Christians, peace covenant with Israel.

 

False Prophet: An evil supporter of Antichrist who convinces many to accept the Antichrist's words.

Jesus in Islam: A righteous supporter of Mahdi who covinces many to accept Mahdi's words.

 

Jesus in Christianity: Wages war against Antichrist, Antichrist is thrown in Lake of Fire.

Dajjal: Fights war against Mahdi, Mahdi's God (I.e., Allah) abhors the person who calls themselves King of Kings (I.e., Dajjal/Christian Jesus).

Muslim Jesus is the same Jesus most Christian worshiped, The differnt is Muslim accapted Jesus as a Prophet and Christian people accepted as a God, The Quran mentioned the same Jesus  from the original bible.

Mahdi mentioned in trusted Hadith  as a person who bring Muhammad teaching (Hadith ) back to live, He is a person who close to Allah but He is not a Prophet, and will unite Muslim across the world under Khilafah and govern the world.

I dont know about the Anti Christ, but in Islam Jesus will come again near the end of the world as Prophet who follow Muhammad teaching a long with Mahdi to make the world prosperous.

Dajal is more like Anti Christ because he will fight against Christian, jews and Muslims alike ( Dajjal will attack every abrahamic religion).

in some Hadith, Mahdi will be killed by Dajjal (Anti Christ ) and Dajjal will be killed by Jesus.

 interested in Mahdi you can check this website :

http://www.khilafah.com/index.php/the-khilafah/issues/7726-the-coming-of-al-mahdi-and-the-establishment-of-the-khilafah.



Nintentacle on 20 October 2014
HollyGamer said:
Nintentacle said:
comflash2 said:

Mahdi can't perform miracle. He just a leader that unite the muslim. Dajjal is the one can perform miracle. I think u need to refer back to your source and confirm either u really mean Mahdi or Dajjal as antichrist. As i told you, Muslim (including Mahdi) love Jesis Christ and we agree with mirace given to him by Allah (raise the dead etc). Here is some reference the miracle of Jesus in Quran that i copied below. The different between Muslim and Christian merely on either Jesus is God. Jesus himself in the bible never claim he is he god. The church interpretation is the one claiming Jesus is the god. I heard multiple Christian scholar agree with that statement (in debate) but they claim Jesus use different way to hint his follower that he is god. I don't want to hurt any christian feeling here, because Quran ask Muslim to talk to the people of book (jew and christian) about similarities and not differences. Ali-Imran 3:64 "Say, "O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah ." But if they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]."

Miracle of Jesus in Quran:

“…and We made her (Mary) and her son (Jesus) a sign for the worlds.” (Quran 21:91)

“And We gave unto Jesus, son of Mary, clear miracles” (Quran 2:87)

“When the disciples said: O Jesus, son of Mary!  Is your Lord able to send down for us a table spread with food from heaven?  He said: Observe your duty to God, if ye are true believers.  They said: We desire to eat of it and our hearts be at rest, and that We may know that you have spoken truth to us, and that We may be witnesses thereof.  Jesus, son of Mary, said: 'O God, our Lord, send down for us a Table laden with food out of heaven, that shall be for us a recurring festival, the first and last of us, and a miracle from You.  And provide us our sustenance, for You are the best of providers!” (Quran 5:112-114)

“He shall speak to people while still in the cradle, and in manhood, and he shall be from the righteous.” (Quran 3:46)

“I am indeed a slave of God.  He has given me the Book and made me a Prophet, and He has made me blessed wherever I may be.  And He has enjoined upon me prayers, and to pay the alms, as long as I live and (He has made me) kind to my mother, and He has not made me insolent, unblessed.  And may Peace be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and on the Day I shall be raised to life.” (Quran 19:30-33)

“I create for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with God’s permission.” (Quran 3:49)

“I also heal the blind and the leper.” (Quran 3:49)

“…and I bring to life the dead, by the permission of God.” (Quran 3:49)

“I inform you too of what things you eat, and what you store up in your houses.  Surely in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.” (Quran 3:49)

I am saying that the Muslim Jesus (It's not the same thing: Christians believe he is the Son of God, was crucified, and rose from the dead, Muslims believe he is just a prophet, and was never crucified/rose from the dead) is th Christian False Prophet. We think the Muslim Jesus (Who is just a prophet) is not the true Jesus.

The False Prophet will preform miracles and decieve many into accepting the Anti-Christ, and make everyone get a mark on their right hand or forehead that lets you buy and sell, and make all worship the Anti-Chrirst. You will be killed if you don't worship the Anti-Christ, but you will go to the Lake of Fire forever if you do.

Like I've said before, It's very similar.

Antichrist: A person of Satan who conquers all nations, makes a one world religion, kills Jews and Christians, peace covenant with Israel.

Mahdi: A person of God who conquers all nations, makes a one world religion, kills Jews and Christians, peace covenant with Israel.

 

False Prophet: An evil supporter of Antichrist who convinces many to accept the Antichrist's words.

Jesus in Islam: A righteous supporter of Mahdi who covinces many to accept Mahdi's words.

 

Jesus in Christianity: Wages war against Antichrist, Antichrist is thrown in Lake of Fire.

Dajjal: Fights war against Mahdi, Mahdi's God (I.e., Allah) abhors the person who calls themselves King of Kings (I.e., Dajjal/Christian Jesus).

Muslim Jesus is the same Jesus most Christian worshiped, The differnt is Muslim accapted Jesus as a Prophet and Christian people accepted as a God, The Quran mentioned the same Jesus  from the original bible.

Mahdi mentioned in trusted Hadith  as a person who bring Muhammad teaching (Hadith ) back to live, He is a person who close to Allah but He is not a Prophet, and will unite Muslim across the world under Khilafah and govern the world.

I dont know about the Anti Christ, but in Islam Jesus will come again near the end of the world as Prophet who follow Muhammad teaching a long with Mahdi to make the world prosperous.

Dajal is more like Anti Christ because he will fight against Christian, jews and Muslims alike ( Dajjal will attack every abrahamic religion).

in some Hadith, Mahdi will be killed by Dajjal (Anti Christ ) and Dajjal will be killed by Jesus.

 interested in Mahdi you can check this website :

http://www.khilafah.com/index.php/the-khilafah/issues/7726-the-coming-of-al-mahdi-and-the-establishment-of-the-khilafah.

I would put it this way: Muslims are basically saying to Christians "Okay, we agree on Adam, Enoch, Abraham, Ishmael, Lot, Jacob, Joseph, Job, Moses, Aaron, Ezekiel, David, Solomon, Elijah, Elisha, Zechariah, etc., but Jesus was just a prophet and the Old Testament (Jesus prophecy) has been edited even though all the proof suggest otherwise, and the New Testament was edited because Muhammad wrote that down."



Kane1389 on 21 October 2014
Leadified said:
bubblegamer said:
DanneSandin said:
All religion are wrong.

#dealwithit

Atheism is a religion, deal with it.


Like not having a stamp collection is a hobby, right?ss 

If you create institutions, websites, organizations, charities, slogans, t-shirts, hats and products out of not having a stamp collection, like atheism does, I guess you can call it a hobby