Nintentacle said:
freedquaker said:
Nintentacle said:
The last one didn't work out well: Complaints about everything! The new and improved!
Sura 7:157 says "Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel"
In other words, until someone finds the name of Muhammad in the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, or Deuteronomy), or the Gospel, no one has a reason to believe.
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Are you even aware that they (Moslems) believe that the Bible (Torah and Gospels) were tempered with and changed with subtractions and additions? Also are you aware the Torah and Gospels today are not the original ones (which were likely revealed in Aramaic). So Quran is talking about the original texts, not the Bible of the present!
Have a little respect, man, before jumping to conclusions...
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We have the same Old Testament as they did before Jesus was born. Haven't you heard of the Septuagint?
Taking that into account, we know that prophecies about a Messiah who would come before the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, would be a Nazarene (I.e., the branch of David), would be killed for remission of sins, and be the Son of God existed before 1 AD as well.
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Regardless of whether this is true is irrelevant. If you are gonna judge a faith, you have to use their own internal logic in consistency. They do not believe in what you believe, so their claim may very well be true according to their own coherent understanding. I suggest you to let it go. You don't know have sufficient information about that, and it will get you nowhere.
One thing you are doing right though is to resort to Quran, rather than the hadith or Sunnah. The hadith and sunnah, as reported, are full of contradictions and complete mumbo-jumbo. Moslems claim that their religion is the right and pure religion, and Quran seems highly reasonable when read without prejudice and with multiple comparative translations but the secondary sources are miserable at best. Do not learn the religion from muslims because the vast majority of them have no idea what is in the Quran. Many of them will claim only muslims will go to heaven, for example, although there are many verses in the Quran such as
Eternal Salvation is not Exclusive to a Race or Sect
2:111 They said, "None shall enter paradise except those who are Jewish or Christians;" this is what they wish! say, "Bring forth your proof if you are truthful.
2:112 No, whosoever peacefully surrenders himself to God, while being a good-doer; he will have his reward with his Lord. There will be no fear over them, nor will they grieve.
2:113 The Jews said, "TheChristians have no basis," and the Christians said, "The Jews have no basis," while they are both reciting the book! Similarly, those who do not know have said the same thing. God will judge between them on the day of Resurrection in what they disputed.
2:114 Who are more wicked than those who prohibit God's temples; so that His name not be mentioned in them; and they seek their destruction? It is they who should not be able to enter them except in fear; they will have humiliation in this world and in the Hereafter a painful retribution.
2:115 To God belongs the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is God's presence. God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
==> It does not matter what race, religious background you are from, or what you call yourself. Paradise is not exclusive to muslims, christians, or jews or else. Anyone who complies with conditions set by Quran may go to paradise. Likewise...
2:62 Surely, those who believe (among muslims), those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
What Moslems and Quan say are two very different things.
