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Forums - Politics Discussion - The Qur'an Exposed Thread

 

Is Nintentacle Religionintentacle?

Yes. 6 75.00%
 
No. 1 12.50%
 
Maybe so. 1 12.50%
 
Total:8
Nintentacle said:
HollyGamer said:
Nintentacle said:

The last one didn't work out well: Complaints about everything! The new and improved!

Sura 7:157 says "Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel"

In other words, until someone finds the name of Muhammad in the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, or Deuteronomy), or the Gospel, no one has a reason to believe.

u should read full ayat not cut in the midle, the ayat is talk about every muslim have to follow Muhammad whom the name  found  on the original bible and Torah, and the people who found the name or found some clue from the bible and Torah  is very a fortunate  people. It doesnt say "until someone finds the name of Muhammad in the Torah no one has a reason to beleve!"

I worded it wrong. I should have said, "Until someone finds Muhammad in the Torah and/or Gospel, then you don't have a reason to believe he is in the Torah and/or Gospel.

No my friend's it's still the same the conclusion of the Ayat are:

1. Every Muslim have to Follow Muhammad

2. Muhammad is the person who teach muslim about doing a good deed and ask every muslim to avoid wrongdoers, explaining about what is halal what is haram, and release some heavy responsibilities (it still need more explanation from an expert about responsibility means) from people who feel their life is bad.

3. And every person who believe of him , following and helping him,  and following light that passed onto him ( the Quran) they are a very fortunate people.

4.Muhammad name also writen in an "original"  bible and "original" torah

5. Muhammad cannot read and cannot write

6. Some schoolar also interprated the text as some explanation about how Syaria law help some jews people lift their burdance in tax and law, benefit the jews from hardship.



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Nintentacle said:
Leadified said:

Well apparently not. In Jesus' time the whole world did not worship the God of Abraham (Isaiah 2:11-17), people have obviously still died since Jesus (Isaiah 25:8), the dead should've all come back (Isaiah 26:19) and there was no worldwide Torah study when Jesus came. (Jeremiah 31:33).

We're getting off topic though, you should probably make a new thread if you want this conversation to go on.

Isaiah 2, Isaiah 25:8, Isaiah 26:19, and Jeremiah 31:33 will all be fulfilled at the Second Coming of Christ (See Revelation)

I'm a patient man.



HollyGamer said:

No my friend's it's still the same the conclusion of the Ayat are:

1. Every Muslim have to Follow Muhammad

2. Muhammad is the person who teach muslim about doing a good deed and ask every muslim to avoid wrongdoers, explaining about what is halal what is haram, and release some heavy responsibilities (it still need more explanation from an expert about responsibility means) from people who feel their life is bad.

3. And every person who believe of him , following and helping him,  and following light that passed onto him ( the Quran) they are a very fortunate people.

4.Muhammad name also writen in an "original"  bible and "original" torah

5. Muhammad cannot read and cannot write

6. Some schoolar also interprated the text as some explanation about how Syaria law help some jews people lift their burdance in tax and law, benefit the jews from hardship.

1. And you have to believe something he said even though you can't prove it?

2. How does the concept of good/bad deeds work?

3. Why is it true?

4. The Torah (5 books of Moses) we have today existed in Muhammad's lifetime; He claimed his name was in them. Where in Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, or Deuteronomy is Muhammad mentioned by name?

5. Then these are the options: He lied, he didn't write it by himself, an angel appeared to him, or a Demon or Satan appeared to him. I'll pick the latter: I'm pretty sure a suicidal prophet of God isn't a prophet of God.



LurkerJ said:
An Interestin bit about animals. The guy in the video linked above by your fellow Muslim says that anything non human (even stars?) is considered a muslim. They are in heaven by default as a result. It does make some sense from your religion's perspective at least. However, the merciness part still doesn't sit with me at all. For Allah to call himself the most merciful he has to really go out of his way to show mercy at all times. Which I don't believe he does. 

If you want to believe that the test we are given is fair, just and merciful, go ahead. I, however, believe that Allah doesn't deserve the most merciful award. As I said earlier, it would've been more merciful if we weren't created at all. I would like to hear your input on the discussion I am having with your fellow Muslim here http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=6760652 . I will understand if don't have the time to do it or you simply don't care enough to continue. Thank you either way.

Cirio explained the idea better than I did.

Answers and truths are not supposed to be given to us on a silver plate. You think god should to be merciful the whole time, and he is. but that mercy is being "held" for those who deserve it until it is time of judgment. Otherwise, it would go against the whole concept of testing who is worthy. God redeems sins for people as God never reject those who seek forgiveness.

" And those who, when they commit an immorality or wrong themselves [by transgression], remember Allah and seek forgiveness for their sins - and who can forgive sins except Allah ? - and [who] do not persist in what they have done while they know."

After that he quotes the quran and the Surah mentioned is shown on the screen. I didn't understand what he exactly said.http://quran.com/33/72 is this the same Surah and he was paraphrasing? "Indeed, we offered the Trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, and they declined to bear it and feared it; but man [undertake to] bear it. Indeed, he was unjust and ignorant." Who is the man referred to here ? All humans?

Yes, the word "man" also means human. the meaning of Surah that humanity as a whole accpeted to bear the burden.



Nintentacle said:
HollyGamer said:

No my friend's it's still the same the conclusion of the Ayat are:

1. Every Muslim have to Follow Muhammad

2. Muhammad is the person who teach muslim about doing a good deed and ask every muslim to avoid wrongdoers, explaining about what is halal what is haram, and release some heavy responsibilities (it still need more explanation from an expert about responsibility means) from people who feel their life is bad.

3. And every person who believe of him , following and helping him,  and following light that passed onto him ( the Quran) they are a very fortunate people.

4.Muhammad name also writen in an "original"  bible and "original" torah

5. Muhammad cannot read and cannot write

6. Some schoolar also interprated the text as some explanation about how Syaria law help some jews people lift their burdance in tax and law, benefit the jews from hardship.

1. And you have to believe something he said even though you can't prove it?

2. How does the concept of good/bad deeds work?

3. Why is it true?

4. The Torah (5 books of Moses) we have today existed in Muhammad's lifetime; He claimed his name was in them. Where in Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, or Deuteronomy is Muhammad mentioned by name?

5. Then these are the options: He lied, he didn't write it by himself, an angel appeared to him, or a Demon or Satan appeared to him. I'll pick the latter: I'm pretty sure a suicidal prophet of God isn't a prophet of God.

1. Every Muslims are free to not believe, but if the Muslims are not believe then the muslim guy or girls is not a good Muslim (not a true Muslim) and eraising the meaning of Muslim (person who follow The Messanger Muhammad SAW)  it self. Every muslim is believe becuase in their hearth on their mind every words Quran is true and proven true, that's why this ayat is only for people who belive not for people who dont believe.

2.The concept is writen in Quran and explained in Hadist (the trusty one), if i want to explain is very hard in a forum like this (to much paragrapp and times to write, maybe if you visit local sunny Mosque (Masjid) and ask some explanation they will help you.

3.Why is it true??? it's refers to the first answer, because the ayat is only for who believe that Muhammad is the messanger (Muslim).

4. The Quran mentioned that Muhammad name "was"mentioned in "the original only text" which you will have some difficulty to find, if you read the current bible and current Torah.

5. Then again is up to you, you dont have to read Quran, you dont have to follow Quran is up to you. and my answer i pick the first He is the choosen one and he indeed has great achievment surpraising every Phrophet before Him and and He also believe is Jesus son of Maria and Moses and their original text. Which is even you don't know what is the actuall text is. :)

6. I wonder if you really want to know Islam why do you ask in this forums, you can go directly go to Mosque is more easy for you to satisfied your hunger in knowladge. But if you have another agenda it will be bad for your name here.



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I personally don't see the reason of wanting to expose somebody else's religious texts. Conversations concerning religion hardly ever end on a good note for all parties involved



 

tsogud said:

I personally don't see the reason of wanting to expose somebody else's religious texts. Conversations concerning religion hardly ever end on a good note for all parties involved

As long he doesn't intend to use his agenda i dont mind, but in reality he indeed have some agenda. If he really want to know about Islam he or she can go to Mosque or Islamict Center on his country.



padib said:
HollyGamer said:
tsogud said:

I personally don't see the reason of wanting to expose somebody else's religious texts. Conversations concerning religion hardly ever end on a good note for all parties involved

As long he doesn't intend to use his agenda i dont mind, but in reality he indeed have some agenda. If he really want to know about Islam he or she can go to Mosque or Islamict Center on his country.

I am interested in his opinion if he thinks that he found some kind of glaring revelation that the christ/antichrist of Christianity is swapped with the Christ/Antichrist of Islam.

If it's true that's a very powerful reflection for believers on both sides.

About antichrist he mentioned he have some ring, there is some connection between Quran and the old bible and Torah, but that's different kind of discussion.

What the original post and the title is more of his agenda to flame other's people faith by blaming Quran with bad connotations "exposed". If he he want to discuss something he should stay on the topic.



padib said:
HollyGamer said:
tsogud said:

I personally don't see the reason of wanting to expose somebody else's religious texts. Conversations concerning religion hardly ever end on a good note for all parties involved

As long he doesn't intend to use his agenda i dont mind, but in reality he indeed have some agenda. If he really want to know about Islam he or she can go to Mosque or Islamict Center on his country.

I am interested in his opinion if he thinks that he found some kind of glaring revelation that the christ/antichrist of Christianity is swapped with the Christ/Antichrist of Islam.

If it's true that's a very powerful reflection for believers on both sides.

Although I do find his opinion interesting (as I do with religion in general) his thread title and OP of exposing someone else's religion could lead to some very dangerous water and not sit well with some people. Like what HollyGamer said if he really wanted to know about Islam he could've went somewhere appropriate or could have just gone about this in a different way. Because it could seem by his OP that he has some sort of hidden agenda.



 

The religious fanatics and the people who question religious belief of others, in my books are on the same page.