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NPD: Xbox One physical copies of Destiny outsold PS4. (Not bundled or digital)

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - NPD: Xbox One physical copies of Destiny outsold PS4. (Not bundled or digital)

Aura7541 said:
NightDragon83 said:
Aura7541 said:
There are a few things that factor into this:

1.) The X1 userbase has a higher proportion of shooter fans since it is more of a dudebro console and heavily advertised as such. The PS4 userbase is not as shooter centric.

-SNIP-

You can't just look at the Top 10 games. If you expand that list, the Xbox brand is clearly more dudebro, especially when you take sales of non-shooters like Tales of Vesperia and The Lost Odyssey into account. The 360 userbase just did not care about JRPGs or any other genre that is not action, shooter, or sports oriented. Meanwhile, IPs like LittleBigPlanet, Ratchet & Clank, Gran Turismo, and Journey sold really well on the PS3. This leads to another problem to your argument in that dudebro is an umbrella term for shooters, action, and sports. You've limited your analysis to just shooters which are only part of the dudebro definition.

You have also missed the second part of my point: the X1 being advertised as a dudebro console. The X1 is getting a Sunset Overdrive and COD:AW bundle later this season. It is also being heavily advertised as the "official console of the NFL" during football games. I just don't see as much diversity on the X1 as I see from the PS4. Meanwhile, the PS4 will be getting LittleBigPlanet 3 and Guilty Gear Xrd -SIGN- later this year.

The last point I should make is that there can be more dudebro gamers on the PS4 while a higher proportion of the X1 userbase be dudebro. After all, the PS4 is outselling the X1 by a huge margin. For instance, the PS4 is selling roughly twice as much, so 50% of the PS4 userbase equals 100% of the X1 userbase. Even if the PS4 userbase may have more dudebro gamers, its library will also be covering other genres such as platformers, western and Japanese RPGs, fighters, open-world, and sandbox because PS4 gamers are also interested on those kinds of games.

Wow,I honestly can't believe what I just read.  Really, the 360/X1 userbase isn't big on platformers, WRPGs, fighters, racing, open world, and sandbox games?  You're joking, right?  The dozens of LEGO games, Oblivion/Skyrim/Fallout, Street Fighter / Mortal Kombat, Forza series / Burnout / NFS etc, GTA / RDR / Crackdown / Saints Row, games that have all solds millions of copies on the 360, in many cases more so than the PS3 versions, all say hi.  You don't see as much diversity on Xbox consoles because you CHOOSE not to see it. 

JRPGs are the ONLY genre that 360 users don't care about, and that's because, quite frankly, the selection of JRPGs completely blew this past gen.  Why should 360 gamers run out and buy the latest FF with a roman numeral slapped onto it when the selection of AAA WRPGs by comparison is top notch?  You've got Little Big Planet?  That's nice... the 360 had a little game called Minecraft, only the best selling indie game of all time so you may have heard of it.  How many copies did LBP sell again?  And X1 has Little Big Plan-It, aka Project Spark.  I'm sure it'll be a bomb and no one will buy it tho, seeing as how Xbox gamers only buy shooters / dude bro games

Action and sports games are also "dude-bro" games too?   I guess Madden, FIFA, NBA2K, UFC ect don't sell on Sony consoles, and Uncharted / The Last Of Us / God of War etc are totally not "dude-bro" action games.  Funny thing is you call out Sunset Overdrive on X1... ummm who makes that game again?  Oh right, Insomniac... who also make Ratchet & Clank, a hybrid platform / action game known for its over the top weapons and 'splosions gameplay and off color humor, and Resistance, which is, surprise surprise, yet another dude-bro FPS title.

But you're right about one thing, only the 360 / X1 has dude-bro bundles like Titanfall / COD / Madden / Sunset Overdrive.  I mean you don't see the PS3 / PS4 being packaged with exclusive bundles for mega dude-bro games and marketed as the lead platform for said games...

Wait, what's this...

Ohhhhhh...

Ohhh noooooo......

What, AGAIN?!?

And this is all just over the past generation... go back to the PS1 and PS2 days.  No "dude-bro" games there I'm sure... well, as long as you don't count all the Tony Hawk / Xtreme sports games, Twisted Metal series, NFL Blitz, WWF/WCW wrestling games, the Medal of Honor series (or as I call it, the o.g. COD), and Tomb Raider (really, how much more "dude-bro" does a game get than one that stars a chick with big guns and even bigger tits???)  And we didn't even mention a little game called Grand Theft Auto III, another penultimate dude-bro game that single-handedly won the generation for Sony.

And with tons more FPS / action / sports games on the way, seems to me like PlayStation will once again be the lead platform for dude-bro games this gen, and 3/4 generatons overall.  Have fun with that.



On 2/24/13, MB1025 said:
You know I was always wondering why no one ever used the dollar sign for $ony, but then I realized they have no money so it would be pointless.

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An interesting info is that even with the most Bungie fans being on Xbone due Halo the attach rate is the same... ~25% of the PS4 and Xbone users bought the game in Sep US.

PS4: 1,125k
Xbobe: 875k

* estimates based in 2,5m retail sold

The games in the bundle were the physical edition. So technically the PS4 version sold much more. Really impressive considering Bungie fans were exclusively on Xbox all these years.



bubblegamer said:

The games in the bundle were the physical edition. So technically the PS4 version sold much more. Really impressive considering Bungie fans were exclusively on Xbox all these years.

Indeed. It says that people who wanted both the game and the system chose PS4 in a larger amount. 



                                                                                                                                                      

cpg716 said:

Yes.. I know..  Digital copies and bundles are not included.  But I was still very suprised about this!   This was pushed as a better on PS4 title..  All the advertising only said PS4..  so I am still surprised that it outsold ...   Yes.. with Digitial and PS4 Destiny bundles we know PS4 sold more copies of the game.. but still..  

 

 


LOL they were given away free so they might has well have been bundled.



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bubblegamer said:

The games in the bundle were the physical edition. So technically the PS4 version sold much more. Really impressive considering Bungie fans were exclusively on Xbox all these years.

Don't forget people that were multi console owners last gen...



Bet Shiken that COD would outsell Battlefield in 2018. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8749702

Ka-pi96 said:
bubblegamer said:

The games in the bundle were the physical edition. So technically the PS4 version sold much more. Really impressive considering Bungie fans were exclusively on Xbox all these years.

Don't forget people that were multi console owners last gen...

True, but there is no denying Bungie fans were on Xbox since the first Halo. That would have made those people prefer the Xbox platform over a competing one. So PS4 being able to sell more means they've converted quite a lot of those fans.



NightDragon83 said:

-SNIP-

Woah there buddy.... shift to reverse and eeeaassse back on the overexaggeration.

Look, it's fine to disagree with my points, but your last reply was basically just a longer version of the one before. If you don't have anything else to share, then don't bother. This will be the last time I'll be replying to you since you're acting a bit knee-jerky and belligerent.

Here's some of my additional points in order to actually continue this discussion. A huge chunk of the PS4 userbase came from former Wii and 360-only gamers (approximately 1/3). This fraction of the userbase basically represents the "swing" gamer, the people who don't have a peronal preference for one console over another and go for the better deal. In this case, the PS4 is the better deal and therefore, they buy games for the PS4, which will include FIFA, COD, Assassin's Creed, etc. This is why it appears that the PS4 is more dudebro, but considering how dedicated the X1 userbase is, its userbase is still more dudebro when it comes to attachment rate. Here's a more realistic example. X1 userbase is at 6 million while PS4 userbase is at 12 million. A multiplat shooter sells 3 million for each system. Attachment rate will be twice as high on the X1.

Uncharted, The Last of Us, and God of War aren't dudebro despite their genres. Uncharted and The Last of Us are technically TPS's, but core of these games aren't the shooting and multiplayer . These two IPs emphasize way, way more on storytelling. In addition, The Last of Us isn't a run-and-gun type of game because of the limited resources you have. Actually, you can go through the game without killing anyone if you're stealthy enough. God of War also emphasizes a lot on plot and represents a different genre: hack n' slash. Not only that, the PS3 had other non-dudebro exclusives like Flower, Journey, Valkyria Chronicles, Metal Gear Solid 4 (again, it's a TPS, but emphasizes a lot more on plot), the Atelier games, Drakengard 3, Disagaea 3 & 4, Ratchet and Clank, Tales of Graces F, Tales of Xillia 1 & 2, Heavy Rain, Beyond: Two Souls, and LittleBigPlanet 1 & 2 (the numerical games sold well. It was only Karting that didn't sell well). You can list all the multiplats of last gen all you want, but the PS3 had those plus all these exclusives.

And if you still don't agree, that's fine, but look at the E3, Gamescom, and TGS. Look at what Sony will be offering in comparison to the X1. Minecraft is on the PS4, so I don't know why you even mentioned that. Forza Horizon 2 did not reach the Top 10 Software list in NPD (September NPD went up to Oct. 4 and FH2 was released on Sept. 30), which is very disappointing considering how well it was received. I have heard nothing from Project Spark since forever, which is a darn shame and a big mistake in MS's part. Scalebound and Phantom Dust will definitely help the X1 look less dudebro-ish, but it is not enough. Meanwhile, the PS4 will be having games like N++, Wild, The Tomorrow Children, Rime, Shadow of the Beast, Without Memory, Everybody's Gone to the Rapture, No Man's Sky, Dragon Quest Heroes, The Witness, God Eater 2, Persona5, Ys, Disgaea 5, Gran Turismo 7, Uncharted 4, Bloodborne, The Order: 1886, Ratchet and Clank Redux, Guilty Gears Xrd -SIGN-, and more. And most of Sony's 1st parties haven't even announced their new projects yet!! This is what I mean as diversity. Games that provide unique experiences through various means whether it be plot, art style, innovative mechanics, or thematic messages.

I don't see that much diversity on the Xbox brand not because I choose not to see it, it is because it is incredibly paltry in comparison to what the Playstation platforms offer and will be offering down the line. And looking at the X1's current situation, it's going to get worse. MS can try to diversify the X1's library, but will the userbase care about the non-shooters/action/sports games? I highly doubt it. The X1 has a major image problem that needs to be rectified and rectified fast.

TLDR: This guy basically nails it and says some of my points (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKGm-OFceoU )



NightDragon83 said:

Wow,I honestly can't believe what I just read.  Really, the 360/X1 userbase isn't big on platformers, WRPGs, fighters, racing, open world, and sandbox games?  You're joking, right?  The dozens of LEGO games, Oblivion/Skyrim/Fallout, Street Fighter / Mortal Kombat, Forza series / Burnout / NFS etc, GTA / RDR / Crackdown / Saints Row, games that have all solds millions of copies on the 360, in many cases more so than the PS3 versions, all say hi.  You don't see as much diversity on Xbox consoles because you CHOOSE not to see it. 

JRPGs are the ONLY genre that 360 users don't care about, and that's because, quite frankly, the selection of JRPGs completely blew this past gen.  Why should 360 gamers run out and buy the latest FF with a roman numeral slapped onto it when the selection of AAA WRPGs by comparison is top notch?  You've got Little Big Planet?  That's nice... the 360 had a little game called Minecraft, only the best selling indie game of all time so you may have heard of it.  How many copies did LBP sell again?  And X1 has Little Big Plan-It, aka Project Spark.  I'm sure it'll be a bomb and no one will buy it tho, seeing as how Xbox gamers only buy shooters / dude bro games

Action and sports games are also "dude-bro" games too?   I guess Madden, FIFA, NBA2K, UFC ect don't sell on Sony consoles, and Uncharted / The Last Of Us / God of War etc are totally not "dude-bro" action games.  Funny thing is you call out Sunset Overdrive on X1... ummm who makes that game again?  Oh right, Insomniac... who also make Ratchet & Clank, a hybrid platform / action game known for its over the top weapons and 'splosions gameplay and off color humor, and Resistance, which is, surprise surprise, yet another dude-bro FPS title.

But you're right about one thing, only the 360 / X1 has dude-bro bundles like Titanfall / COD / Madden / Sunset Overdrive.  I mean you don't see the PS3 / PS4 being packaged with exclusive bundles for mega dude-bro games and marketed as the lead platform for said games...

Wait, what's this...

Ohhhhhh...

Ohhh noooooo......

What, AGAIN?!?

And this is all just over the past generation... go back to the PS1 and PS2 days.  No "dude-bro" games there I'm sure... well, as long as you don't count all the Tony Hawk / Xtreme sports games, Twisted Metal series, NFL Blitz, WWF/WCW wrestling games, the Medal of Honor series (or as I call it, the o.g. COD), and Tomb Raider (really, how much more "dude-bro" does a game get than one that stars a chick with big guns and even bigger tits???)  And we didn't even mention a little game called Grand Theft Auto III, another penultimate dude-bro game that single-handedly won the generation for Sony.

And with tons more FPS / action / sports games on the way, seems to me like PlayStation will once again be the lead platform for dude-bro games this gen, and 3/4 generatons overall.  Have fun with that.


First, for the record, I do have to mention that my opinion does differ a little from Aura's on "What Makes Dudebro,' as I don't really associate Sunset Overdrive with that title. For me, I feel that Sunset Overdrive has enough color and irreverence to also set it apart from just being a 'Dudebro shooter,' as it seems to poke fun at those conventions and I'm actually looking forward to seeing more of it. My definition for dudebro shooters is usually the sort of hat-on-heart, overly serious, not-remotely-self-aware shooting fests typified by Call of Duty and Battlefield, so, from both consoles, I would include Resitance, Killzone, Halo, Gears, etc. Stuff that has mechanics that set it apart- like Fallout 3's fairly extensive RPG elements- or a tone contrary to the normal Military Dick Waving- such as Sunset Overdrive or the super-powered slug-fests of Saints Row 4 and Infamous- are actually precisely my cup of tea.

But yeah, games like Sunset Overdrive are A-Okay in my book, and I actually really hope it does well, because I'd like Microsoft to stretch itself a little in terms of exclusive content; last thing I want is the game doing poorly, leading to 'BACK TO THE SPACE MARINES EVERYONE!'

But now! Allow me to explain the reasoning for the whole dudebro console thing.

***

First! My methodology! Feel free to skip to the next section for the conclusions (and point) this section is just to take you step-by-step through the process by which I reached these conclusions. Obviously, if you have a problem with my conclusions, you should double-check this section to make sure the answer to any questions aren't already covered.

*clears throat*

Not even going to spend much time on Japanese games because, well, pretty much a solid conclusion that the PS3 was far better supported in terms of JRPGs than the Xbox 360, a factor that contributed to it having significantly more exclusives released in later years. Don't think we disagree there, and honestly, bringing in Japanese exclusives just makes it unfair for the Xbox. o.o If you do think the Xbox was equally supported in Japanese content, well, you're hilariously wrong, so either way, we can move on.

Let us look instead at the turn the Xbox 360's first party development focus took during the last third or so of its lifespan, to measure why one may look on the console as a 'dudebro' unit. Now, I generally don't count Kinect games for the pretty simple reason that, as someone deciding if a console's lineup is 'right for you,' you'd only count Kinect games if you both had a Kinect, and actually LIKED the games; simply buying or owning a 360 wasn't enough, you needed to also buy the peripheral, which does inevitably create a 'divide' in the mind of consumers between Kinect games, and non-Kinect games. To anyone who didn't own a Kinect, bringing up Kinect games to defend the system would have been like bringing up 3DS games to defend the Wii U. Sure, the games are THERE, but you can't play it with the set-up you currently have. Besides, I'm being all nice and not bringing in Japanese content, or PS Move content, so consider this a trade-off.

So, between the launch of the Kinect and the launch of the Xbox One, what did Microsoft's studios, the ones not working to try and make Kinect relevent, bring the non-Kinect owning fanbase in terms of new content?

Two Halo games! Two Gears games! Two Forza games!!

...end of list! (Unless you want to count a Fable remake, but for the record, if we're counting that as a new game, we also get to count TLOU:R as a new game! =D )

But wait! That's not the entire story, let us delve deeper, into the third-party stuff. So, the list of third-party content, either funded by Microsoft or simply signed on in exclusivity, is...

-State of Decay, released in 2013. Solid game, from what I've heard, so kudos! =D
-Minecraft (Since it was exclusive until only recently.)
-The Witcher 2
-Toy Soldier: Cold War, a game about military toys engaged in feverent battle.
-Blackwatch, a pretty badly reviewed Kinect shooter I am only including cause it was technically possible to use a controller instead.
-Sesame Street! I am super cereal.

So! Six games in about three years, two a year on average. Of those six titles, Blackwatch is pretty much dudebro all the way, Sesame Street, Minecraft, and the Witcher 2 aren't, while State of Decay and Toy Soliders are kinda grey area, in the way one asks if God of War or TLOU is dudebro, because there are some elements that say yes, (Military, lots of violence,) and others that say no. (Toys, swinging chain blades and Greek mythology.) But hey, I'll count them as 'not dudebro,' as they do have elements that set them apart from twitch shooters, such as survival features and the fact that you're a little plastic figurine, and also cause I'm awesome like that. =D

Two Halo Games, Two Gears Games, Two Forza Games, and Blackwatch give us a total of 7 Dudebro games. The Fable remake, plus Sesame Street, Minecraft, the Witcher 2, State of Decay, and Toy Soldiers give us 6 non-Dudebro games, bringing the total up to 13 non-Kinect Xbox 360 exclusives between the release of the Kinect, and the release of the Xbox One.

****

Now, my conclusions, including a brief summary of my findings! In case you skipped the above section, the total number of non-Kinect exclusives over three years was 13, of which 6 weren't dudebro shooters or racers.

You ridicule the idea that the Xbox 360 is a dudebro console and the PS3 wasn't, because Playstation has dudebro stuff, and dudebro bundles, and the funny thing is, in a way you are correct. Playstation has shooter franchises, racing franchises, it even has an exclusive sports franchise (baseball.) It also had some of the goriest and most violent exclusive stuff on all the platforms, i.e. God of War and his slow-motion-head-ripping-offs. And yet it's the Xbox 360 that gets called the dudebro console, even by its own fans some of the time. Dem lies! Dem Sony Fanboy LIES! All misinformation, correct?!

Not quite. Because what you're neglecting is the fact that the PS3 also had things to call its very own- things that weren't on the Xbox- that broke the dudebro mold, and what's more, it had MORE of that variety than the Xbox 360 did, even if we don't count the Japanese exclusives that were exclusive largely because the Xbox's market position in Japan is 'Lawl.' The fact that it had all those exclusive shooters, car games and sports games was muffled because it also had other properties, be they different in terms of mechanics or in appearance to a military or space marines shooter/conventional racer, that fleshed out its 'identity,' while the Xbox 360, surprisingly, steadily jettisoned the elements that fleshed out its own identity over its lifespan, ignoring the bulk of the IPs that COULD have made it a balanced console in the eyes of the wider consumer base, in favor of the sure-selling shooters and racing titles, until it ended the generation as 'The Console With Shooters And Racers.'

The irony is, I honestly don't think that the Xbox 360 fanbase were mostly dudebros, and that nobody there liked platformers or RPGs. I truly don't. Heck, I was a fairly early 360 adopter (back before the first Bioshock released) and I'm about as varied as they come.

But judging by the focus of their development in the later years of the 360, (and if you skipped all that stuff up there, don't you dare say 'what do you mean by that?' =P ) it really seems Microsoft thought the fanbase was mostly dudebros. o_o Or at the very least, that they decided the non-dudebros weren't numerous enough to bother catering to. Bright side is, they are- slowly- starting to show a shift in momentum, one that will hopefully make the Xbox One a lot more varied throughout its lifespan than the Xbox 360 ended its run. And honestly, continuing to be outsold by the PS4 will likely help with that, as Microsoft will work harder to bring more content, and reach a broader audience, if only to try and recapture the U.S. market.

But regardless on whether they succeed in changing that perception, and that reputation, it IS a reputation they brought on themselves.



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Unless He Forgets In Which Case Zanten, Forgetter Of The Things

Or He Procrascinates, In Which Case Zanten, Doer Of The Things Later

Or It Involves Moving Furniture, in Which Case Zanten, F*** You.

bubblegamer said:

The games in the bundle were the physical edition. So technically the PS4 version sold much more. Really impressive considering Bungie fans were exclusively on Xbox all these years.


I think the reach of this game stretched alot further then ''bungie fans''. Also this is the first Halo -esque experience made available on a playstation platform when I think of it which gives it a bonus in terms of garnering attention from the playstation auidence.