Well it's not like Jay was going to make up his own sales numbers, from what I remember it was just going contain NPD's. Also first sentence of my first reply. No it wasn't a clone, he stressed he wanted to make a site that was different. And JayWood DID stop, just because someone leaks a private message to them and now he's banned. PMs shouldn't even be used in cases like this, how are you ever going to enforce that rule fairly against everyone? Minds well start spying on PMs if that's the case. I mean how many other PMs are floating around about other projects/sites?

Why would ioi allow Joe actively/openly promote a forum that was CLEARLY targeting a portion of the members on this site and eventually try to take as many users with him from here?

We obviously disagree but I don't see how you could possibly think one is okay and not the other. To each their own I suppose.

I actually have a message from a mod literally saying "This is a PM, you don't have to censor yourself". So using PMs to ban someone doesn't seem right at all

Might as well change it from PM to "We know what you did last summer"

But seriously, I shouldn't have to point out that the P in PMs means private. If anyone on this site felt annoyed or threatened by these PMs (which by the way never included any sharing of URLs, you know since Jays project hasn't happened yet) they could have simply asked Jay to stop, leave them out of it or whatever.

I don't know Jay super well but I have gotten to casually speak to him off site in the last couple of months and from what I do know about him, if he was asked by someone to stop bothering them, he would have done so.

Jay was asked to stop using a freaking slogan in his threads, which by the way really helped lighten things up around here for a good while but when asked he did stop. Now you're telling me he can't share with people through private means that he's working on a project?

I feel as though comparing Vizioneck to this new site is a little unfair. There's an awful lot of differences between the two scenarios from what I've seen. First Vizioneck was discussed and only really promoted after the forums were launched. In addition JtB had no intention of the forums to be a replacement for VGC (something he mentioned numerous times) and did indeed stop when asked last year. There's a difference between having a sig with a link to it in my opinion because plenty of people have links in their sigs. Also note that at the time there was a different head head mod and had this team been in place a year ago, perhaps a different outcome would have occurred for Joe.

As far as the PM issue goes, I suggest really reading the ban note and the messages from Trucks once more. Jay was asked to stop by the owner of the site, but didn't. These PM'S are merely proof of this and as it acted as supporting evidence to the perma, the content must be severe enough in order to cause this. But one key thing is this is not just a straight perma. You can see this has been going on for three months with the PM'S sent from ioi about a month ago. And I know these guys, they wouldn't get rid of such a prominent and pronounced user unless there was a real reason for it, which I think has been explained well and with transparency for the good of the site.

I understand a lot of the anger, naturally. I may not have agreed with everything he did but I did know that the site is a better place now because of his time and effort, something I said to him less than a week ago. However we have to respect the decision made by the head mods and move on; using the legacy which Jay has left us to build off of and make things just as good (if not better) than before. I appreciate that will be difficult and I'm more than happy to try to improve the site for Xbox fans and to pick up some of the slack, as are a number of other users I've spoken to. So let's not allow all of Jays work and commitment go to waste and make the Xbox community, and this site, the best it can be.

Someone sent me a PM one that should have gotten them Permabanned and arrested, but they are still here.

I'm really stunned. Not sure what I'm going to respond with yet. It's another bad sign.

Just stunned and saddened. Like this bunny...

Oh for sure. The reason this thread is here is to provide feedback and there's nothing wrong with a disagreement, particularly over something as large as this. But odds are things aren't going to change and Jay will remain permad. If people are to remain on this site (which I encourage them to do because I personally enjoy talking to a good number of them) then that is something that will need to be acknowledged at some point so we can all move on and continue working to make this site as good as it can be.

Also apologies for the questionable grammar, writing these messages on mobile is kinda tough. 

Looks, he is playing with his bunny friend:

Bunny seems to be taking his anger about JayWood2010 on the little yellow bunny.

Seems to me the terms of this ban are dubious at best and that the mods don't have a foot to stand on. If Jay get's banned everyone who promotes his site ( like vizioneck) and does stuff in PM's should get banned too. But that won't happen because the mods only wanted to get rid of Jay, nothing else...

This was a really good post, as was Kapis ignored one yesterday  

I think a big issue with everything is I feel there's too much ambiguity in the situation. Some people may not know, or realize this, but the reason Jay also made threads (spammed) them, was to create more discussion on VGC outside of XBE and wanted to see more threads besides Ryng's prediction threads for Nintendo. There's this Skype group a lot of people in Empire are in and he felt a lot of news was missing from there, so he decided to bring this discussion out of Empire and into the forum. He had no plan on somehow bringing this to a new website. 

Another thing, he's been here for 5 years and, so I honestly felt the perms was too extreme, especially for PMs; not even a 30 day ban was given. He also never got a chance to explain things in this thread, which leads to the ambiguity. 

This Jay thing seems to be in a very grey area for me. If you spin the argumentation further you could ban everyone posting youtube videos of their own channel or link to any site that they're affiliated with.

It may be in line with the forum rules but this is the first time they're actually enforced.