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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - If the Nintendo Fusion is another hardcore gaming system, it won't sell more than the Wii U and 3DS combined.

Soundwave said:
Avro1958 said:
First off it would be suicide for Nintendo to release a new console before 2018....

If they release it to soon they will:

- Alienate the WiiU supporters they have now
- When the next round of consoles from Sony and MS come out Nintendo will be in the same boat they are now with the WiiU.
- Consoles NEED to be released within months of each other not years.

These risks are what will prevent Nintendo from releasing to soon. Besides the WiiU is doing fine enough, the only people that seem to be having an issue with it are people that are to hung up on how a game looks rather then the fun behind it. If you are buying a WiiU for 3rd party games then I am sorry, that's your fault for not looking into things further. Nintendo has always been about first party games first. I buy Nintendo for the 1st party games... I have a PC/PS4 for multiplats and other exclusives.

Nintendo is in no rush to push out a new console anyway, they made enough money on the WiiU to "sit a gen out" as some people seem to think.

In reality, even Nintendo knows Wii U is a flop. So it's not a high priority. Sure they'll make sure it gets its token number of Mario/Zelda/Mario Kart etc. games and maybe even throw out a Metroid towards the end of 2016.

Launching the successor to the 3DS is no.1 priority internally at Nintendo right now, I'd gauruntee it, it just so happens that the 3DS successor basically will eventually replace both the 3DS and Wii U. 

I doubt they think it's a flop, they still have time and the resources to give it a good solid go. I do agree with the 3DS though, that is the number one thing on there agenda! I see no reason for Nintendo to release a console before 2018.  



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Soundwave said:
Jay70sgamer said:
Soundwave said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:
Soundwave said:

Well one being a phone for example is a pretty huge difference. Besides the different SKUs being different isn't bad really ... it gives incentive for a person to buy both if they have a large investment in the ecosystem already, a person who normally may only buy a Nintendo handheld may say "well gee, it would be nice to play some of these games on TV at home, maybe I'll pick up the Nintendo Fusion Home version too, it's pretty cheap". 

No they can't compete with PS5 (not even sure there will be an XB2) for raw power, but I don't think Nintendo really gives a crap about that anymore. For Nintendo's style, even Wii U level of power suits them just fine, and a Fusion home device honestly could be considerably more powerful than that if they really wanted it to be. I think it could be in the range of 800-900 GFLOPS with 3-4 GB of RAM (for games) and a more modern DX11 style graphical effects. That will result in graphics on screen for Nintendo games that I think most people will be quite happy with, especially if the price point is sub-$200. 

They need to leverage their Virtual Console back catalog better though and this system should also be able to rework Wii U titles so it has a lot of software to play from day 1. 

Two SKUs isn't a benefit on a company if both SKUs are sluggish. Imagine Wii U/3DS were one product line ... in that case, they would be on pace to sell 100 million units between them for one generation (and games like Mario 3D World would have access to a larger userbase) ... but seperately they weaken Nintendo's case that this was a successful gen for them. 

Well, if they are exactly the same, I highly doubt there will be enough people buying the console itteration just for the sake of playing the exact same game at home. Just look at the Vita... Most of the games that are playable on it are playable on the ps3 or elsewhere but that doesn't mean people are saying, gee, I can't wait to invest more on Sony's eco system and play these games on the Go... Heck, the only reason the handheld is still selling is cause there are games coming out in Japan...

Also, if its a portable device, how on earth do u expect it to even have dx11 style of graphics with x86, specially if its sub $200 while maintaining great battery life? See, the issue is that with x86 tablets, as of right now, aren't ment for gaming with x86. If you look at the windows tablets for $500-$900, they have a decent cpu with a really terrible GPU and the reason for that is to concerve battery life. The reason why ipads/androids tablets are able to play games while having great battery life is cause they are all arm architecture and adreno gpu which again, third parties don't want...

And sure, having 2 sku's that are sluggish isn't a good thing but all that means is that they have to look at what they have done wrong this generation (3d + gamepad) and fix it in the next generation. Every company makes mistakes but that doesn't mean they should just give up... Microsoft made mistakes with Windows 95, Millennium, Vista, 8, Sony made mistakes with their PCs, TVs and a large list of other things and etc but u don't see them giving up just cause they goofed once a while (Granted Sony shutdown their PCs but thats cause they were failing at it for a super long time)... Imagine if Microsoft stopped making consumer windows after vista and just focused on the Server market, that would be crazy!

Tegra K1 has console style graphics in a $300 tablet today, and that's likely heavily marked up. But that can have DX11 style effects already, I never said it had to be on par with a PS4. 

I'd say Wii U level graphics with a few added effects is likely, and more than doable IMO by 2016 for $250 or less. Throw in perhaps 1080P + anti-aliasing for the home variant. Mind you Nintendo is not beholden to the same business model most tablet manufacturers are ... they can get away with only making a $5-$10 profit/unit because they make their main money selling games on their handheld, that's different from say ASUS or other tablet manufacturers. 

Nintendo's got their asses handed to them pretty handedly by Sony in the console gen for 3/4 tries, and really the one success was an unsustainable fad. They've tried to win the console space multiple times, this isn't them just "giving up" overnight. Their console business has been declining for almost 25 years now with the exception of like a 4 year bump. 

It's time to change it up. 


Your  definition of getting their asses handed to them is delusional and short minded no disrespect but how can you have  your ass handed to you when every home console and every handheld console except virtual boy has turned a profit every generation every console ...also I might add nintendo has made over 25 billion in profits in the gaming industry where as Sony and Microsoft has lost billions ......my friend winning in business is by making a profit not how many units you sell or some fanboy console war ......true gamers know thatNintendo doesn't have to sell the most consoles or come in first to profit ..it's all about making a profit and nintendo is better than Microsoft and Sony in the video game business when it comes to making a profit ..if you like I can show you a graph of the earnings of all three until 2011 of who profited and loss billions ....just saying ...all I care about is that these companies make great games ..I could care less who sells the most or who comes in first ....


Well even the "every console they make is profitable" ... not anymore. They've lost money for 3 straight years despite respectable 3DS sales, which means the Wii U is dragging the company down. 

It's not the GameCube era anymore ... they could make good sized profits when development costs for games were much lower. Back then, the average GBA cost penauts to make and Gamecube games had reasonably costs. 

Today the average 3DS game probably costs them as much as the average GameCube game, and Wii U games are far more expensive and require higher staff per title. 

That and GBA wasn't really challenged by iOS/Android, either. And the early 2000s was also the peak of Pokemon merchandising/movies/etc. that they were raking in $$$$ from. 

You can't make money from a 20 million userbase (Wii U is probably not even going to hit 20 mill at this rate), not today, not with the changes in development and other factors (like Nintendo's handheld division not being able to bail them out whenever the console does poorly). 

A PS4-PS5 class console with a sub-20 million userbase is going to do nothing but bleed tons of money. That's just not a sustainable business model. What you're championing is basically that Nintendo should raise their development costs each generation, and that somehow having a GameCube sized userbase is good enough to pay that off because it worked 13 years ago with the GameCube. That doesn't really make any sense. 

See you are mistaken ....they have had quarterly losses recently and that was because of reorganizing and R&D and if you look at Nintendos fiscal report yearly ...they only took a loss last year in fiscal year 2013 they had a operating profit of 78 millionth 2012 ....Nintendo will be looking at a profit off their wii u and 3ds model from now until the generation ends because every wii u sold is at a profit ...not a loss when they first released the system at a loss...also you are forgetting most profit is made from software not hardware in which that is where most of their profits are made from first party software ...why do you think Nintendo doesn't really care as much as why they are not getting third party because they make large amounts of profit off first party whereas their is no middle man(rockstar,EA,Warner,) all nintendo profits......that is why they are the only ones that can live without third party software and still survive.......Nintendo as a company has zero debt and billions in the bank ...as long as their software sells in the millions they will be ok ....I'm not saying they do not have to adjust in some areas but nintendo will be alright and always just survive whereas the other two lose money by money hatting  third party exclusives and selling their consoles at a big loss and make up for it in their 3 or 4 year ...even Sony said they want their exclusives to sell a great amount and Microsoft 



to provide what seems to be a missing perspective, i never have and never will own a handheld console. i don't travel much so why on earth would i play on a small screen when i have a tv to play on? if the new system ends up being like the ios joystick and a ds at the same time then technically i'd get a handheld.



Shadow1980 said:
Why does everyone think that the Fusion is an actual thing being planned? It's still a rumor and should be treated as such. No amount of proclaiming matter-of-factly that "Nintendo can or cannot do this or will or will not do this so they have to make a hybrid and it'll do well because one hardware line, etc., etc." can make it anything less of a rumor. I know many gamers like to treat their opinions and speculations — and the opinions and speculations of those they agree with — as not just true, but axiomatically so, but it doesn't make treating rumors as facts any less baseless.

they arent just baseless rumors, Iwata and Miyamoto have heavily hinted at such an idea many times this year.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

QUAKECore89 said:





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Corollary of the "Any hardcore Nintendo system will flop" theorem.



sundin13 said:
I disagree fundamentally on the grounds that your definition of the Fusion is different than my definition of the Fusion. My Fusion works as a handheld and a home console and doesn't require you to buy both to get all the functionality.

Your Fusion sounds like crap...my Fusion sounds wonderful :P


I like his fusion more. Because a portable fusion will be unnecessary expensive. 

If I just want it to be "on the go" i still have to pay for a HDMI connector and bluetooth for 4 controller support etc etc.  Also it will limit the Fusions horsepower since its portable.

And if I just want the thing to be a console I would have to pay for a probably 5" HD touchscreen  buttons slide pads battery etc.

Having 2 seperate systems one for your TV and a portable one gives you the choice.

And btw having 2 systems that run games in e.g 720p medium and the other at 1080 ultra  does not in any way kill the portable at all.  There is just 2 devices isntead of one. The portable probably has no option to add 3 bluetooth controllers etc.



Why is it always the same argument of phones hurting handhelds because of the masses of cheap games?
Has anybody ever thought about phones and tablets still being just phones and tablets? Maybe people don't want to carry another portable device or are busy with their messaging (I know almost all people on public transportation are) and then start a cheap game every once in a while. It's definitely not like mobile gaming on smart devices is way more popular than dedicated gaming devices. It may sell more but I won't believe anyone saying mobile games are played more (I played some stuff for 2 minutes and never touched it again; paying $2 with a gift card didn't hurt me) or deliver any kind of atmosphere.
Making gaming handhelds more capable and interesting, that should be something to think about. Not talking about how everybody wants casual mobile endless bird popping games, labeled with "Mario", and definitely not "AAA" on phones; make the AAA gaming more like phones and you have a real "Fusion".



What at first sight might seem like a bad decision, of making every game work on both consoles, the truth is, even with some unseen tech in console gaming, developing games that can run on both systems is Nintendo's only real answer to today's gaming challenges.

The idea of making every game work on the 2 systems might give the idea that Nintendo will sell less consoles because, well, there are no system exclusives. So why buy the two consoles?
But what if Nintendo sells the consoles not as separate entities but as an ecosystem?

What i mean is, why not pack in both systems and sell them for less than buying them separately? 400$ together, instead of 450 or 500, alone? PS4 and XB1 seem to be doing great at their respective prices.
The tech on the HW and the controller would be the same, so, just make it the handheld work as a controller and when you can't play at home, play everywhere else.
Streetpass/Spotpass on your home console!

If making games work on all systems might lose some customers, by selling one game in two systems would decrease the risks of failure - thus reviving older franchises - and increase the chances for profits.
Also, by developing automatically for two install bases, would allow to make better deals with 3rd parties, western and japanese.
Those games that you can only play if you own both systems, would be a thing of the past.
Nowadays, if you can only own a Wii U, all that japanese library is out of your reach. But with an ecosystem of Nintendo HW, that would be a thing of the past.

For Nintendo it would be like supporting one platform and reaping the benefits of two.
With the increase in development costs and more people beeing needed, they could still support that ecosystem with ease.

And this is where things get interesting!
For generations, we have seen franchises beeing left unctouched for years before they got revived.
For exemple, Metroid skipped the N64; Starfox basically skipped the GC; F-Zero skipped the Wii.
But if they are going to support one ecosystem, how can they afford to skip franchises? They do need the games there.

And not just that, they will be forced, by the own creation of a ecosystem, to actually develop new franchises - be it 1st, 2nd or even 3rd party.

They have always created new IPs over the years, but how many were of the level of Mario, Pokémon, Zelda, DK, Animal Crossing, to name a few? With more needed, we might just see the next Mario or Zelda.
We could also see the Mario and Pokémon franchise being less used; we could get one year a 2D Zelda and another year a 3D one or a 2D Metroid and a 3D Metroid after that one.
I can already see franchises like Mario, Zelda, DK, Metroid, getting the 2D and 3D treatment to please all gamers!

Who wouldn`t like being served with the best Nintendo franchises in both 2D and 3D, in the system or systems they own?
I know i would!



My thoughts on the Fusion idea:

The clear benefit is that Nintendo can focus on ONE system, on ONE ecosystem instead of two. They'd release a hell of a lot more games, thus avoiding the droughts we've seen on 3DS and Wii U.

The games could/would range between AAA level and portable and indie levels, and Nintendo could offer them in accordingly price ranges; $60, or $30, or even $5. You could play a $60 AA Zelda game on the go, or a $30 platformer on the big screen. That gives the costumer options – we looove options!!

The important thing is to make the games scalable! Lower textures and lighting on the portable version and higher on the home version, kinda like the PC's already doing. I'm pretty sure that this would save Nintendo money in the development department; not having to spend $10 million on the next Mario, maybe $5m would suffice.

Nintendo wouldn't be dependent on 3rd party support (which most often is sorely lacking on their platforms), since they'd spit out a game or two EVERY month!

Speaking of 3rd parties; with ONE ecosystem with TWO devices the instal base would be a lot bigger than on only one console with one ecosystem, the cost of porting games to the Fusion would be a lot less risky since you could cater to a lot bigger audience. And let's remember that Sony probably won't make a new handheld after the Vita (the handheld market is a lot smaller these days, and Nintendo is dominating that market). There obviously IS a (somewhat small) market for AAA experiences on a portable device; just look at Call od Duty and Assassin's Creed on the Vita. 3rd parties could cater to this market, AND to Nintendo fans – at the same time – by porting games to the Fusion. Ain't that a treat?

I'd sell it in THREE (3) different SKUs:
Only the Handheld, bundled with a HH friendly game (say NSMB or a 2D Zelda) for $200/250
Only the Home Console, bundled with a “pro-controller” and a HC friendly AAA game (say 3D Mario or Zelda) $250/300
Both devices and bundled with a game and maybe a pro-controller for $400



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