FINALLY!!! Someone who understands where I come from regarding Tekken. Whenpeople complain to me about spamming, grapping, juggles/air combos I just look at them like are you serious? If I was playing you in a fighiting a game and realized that you ALWAYS get hit by a certain move then I am going to destroy you with that move lol. That like if I was a boxer and saw that whenever I through a right jab you ducked it instead of swaying or dodging it then I now know what to follow up with because I know where you will be.

To get hit with the same move(spamming as some call it) over and over is a sign more so that revolves around how good you are at the game at hand in my opinion, I could go on about allt eh other points you made but they were VERY well written and though out! Plus 1!

it has to have anna williams

I seldom play fighting games PVP, but I play Smash, Soul Calibur, and Dissidia. Of those, Dissidia is actually my favorite. Go figure.

I would also loosely categorize the Souls games as an interesting fighting game experiment. Even if the emphasis on the game is a PVE Action RPG, PVP is certainly a spin on fighting games.

A GOOD Fighting game must do three things:

1. Have gameplay which is simple to grasp and difficult to master.
2. Have a set roster of characters who feel different in play than others.
3. A good tutorial.

A GREAT Fighting game must go beyond those:

1. Focus on character balance. Rock-Paper-Scissor works, but match-strength is better.
2. Know if you intend to tell a story or just connect stages BEFORE writing the script.
3. Have ways that high-skill and low(er)-skill players can meaningfully play side-by-side and feel fun for both players.

The last one is particularly important. Very few games balance for player skill, and while rewarding players for mastering the game is important, it also means fighting game communities tend to shrink as gamers drop out of the series. This is one of the things Smash does brilliantly.

you mean like Pauls really hard input for his 1/2 to 3/4 health punch? of Back and both punches? Or Yoshimitsu's impale move which if it lands is going to take half a bar of health... which is back back and square. I know those are long wind up moves but there is very little if any inputs in Tekken which are more than a direction and a button combination, Angel/Devils Eyebeam/Flying Beam is either both punches or Kicks but as projectiles in a Tekken universe they can be abused to hell and aren't really soft on the Health bar either. I know a lot of Kings combination grapple moves have massive inputs but in Tekken land he is very much the minority when it comes to commands.

As for my main thing about what makes fighting games great is the ability to keep things even, if a fight is going sour for one player to have something like the revenge bar in SF4 that fills from being hit (or focusing attacks) but where if you happen to get caught out badly and lose a chunk of Health it gives you ammo to have some shot at coming back into the game. Heck some fighters just ruin certain play styles once they have some revenge, don't considering the air to be your friend if you've kicked Hakan a few times for example.

Balance. You'll notice it mostly in online fighting games. You come across the same characters over and over for a reason in some.

Yet, just make them fun, they have to be fast paced and full of action.


On spamming in Tekken it exists because they put juggling in it. Tekken 5 is the best Tekken yet made, Tekken 6 is great but juggling hurt it. My play style from all previous Tekkens was thrown out as it wasn't right anymore.

But that makes no sense because there are some REALLY good fighters(that I know personally) that NEVER juggle. And okay even if spamming does exist then it is even easier to counter it in Tekken because you know they will ALWAYS be throwing out that move. Oha nd while Tekken Dr was great NOTHING Tekken 3 or maybe not even TTT1.

This, pretty much sums up my experience and what I feel about fighing games nowadays. Not even a close friend, who was far superior than me on these kind of games, could help me overcome the steep learning curve of SSFIV. He just told me to practice and practice, but he couldn't fully understand which were my weaknesses were so he kinda gave up on me. Those kind of people who only say "practice, practice and practice" only worry on how good they can do and nothing else. They use a lot of fancy moves and combos while playing, but they can only say "practice". Sure, whatever. SSFIV feels barebones in the practicing aspect.

Also, I agree with you on the first paragraph. Some of the games just won't teach one how to perform the moves. The Trials from SSFIV felt more like a chore rather than a learning experience. And it's true what you've said about Soul Calibur 2. Tutorials like those (or like the ones at DOA5) actually helped me much more on learning the ropes. On the last paragraph, you are totally right about making a game more open and frendlier to beginners. But remember there's the hardcore community which will tirelessly complain on how easy the game is compared to the other ones, or how many beginners are flooding the online lobbies. 

Actually, I was indeed referring to King's grapple inputs since he was the one I mostly used as my main. And it is true what you meant about the Revenge/Ultra bar at SSFIV. Any pro can use it to get back. Thing was, whenever I played with my friend, he would always counter my successful attempt to do said move while my health was low. And to make it worse, I couldn't counter his Ultra in any way. After several times, it got pretty frustrating. Sure, the revenge meter is an useful mechanic to bring you back to the game, but it doesn't work for everyone.

SSB and the DBZ are the only fighting games i've ever liked. So not sure.

Spoken like most that don't seem to understand the mechanics of tekken.

1. as you said these are wind up moves, in tekken land they are better known as unblockables (I am sure you knew that) these moves take time, you see coming a mile away, very easy to avoid and punish but on a plus side, if your opponent is dumb enough or buzzed out enough to eat a move like this then he will most liely die. Its like a move that kills you for being stupid. Or that kills you for having the audacity to do it. Tekken moves are easy to do (well most of the moves) and there are a lot of them. Thats why tekken isn't about moves but rather about Fighting styles. 
   
   
2. This move, again, if you find yourself eating this move you are a noob. First off you can see see it coming a mile away. There is at least 3 seconds of the pre-move animation before he actually does anything. Again, they re very easy to do but its also so easy to avoid them that only noobs will do it in open play and only noobs will keep biting it.
   
   For the ground one, allyou have to do is duck if you are too scared to time the sidestep. You can actually duck walk right under it and close the gap between you and him before the lazer show finishes and punish the hell outta him. As for the airborne or flying one, all you have to do is sidestep or side walk. Once outta its path you can run right up to him and WAIT for him to land..... hehehehehe, this would be a good time wind up one of those unblockable moves that eats up 3/4 health so he lands right into it. Be rest assured, you do that to some one ONCE, that person will never do that move again.
   
   
3. Tekken also has a "revenge bar" though its called rage. It doesn't charge up or anything, just kicks in when your health is at around 20% left. Then all your moves does more damage. It could kick in earlier depending on how fast your health was depleted.