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Forums - Politics Discussion - Bruce Rauner wants to end minimum wage in illinois. Don't vote for this guy!

MTZehvor on 18 September 2014
Acevil said:
MTZehvor said:
Trouble with minimum wage is people simply aren't meant to live on it. Raising the minimum wage does nothing in the long run as it does nothing to permanently shift real wages. People working those jobs will end up in just as poor a position as they were beforehand once prices adjust, with nothing to show for it but inflation. It's a good intentioned solution to a major problem, and one that certainly should get more attention, but that's the best I can say about it.

Anyway, regardless of what the guy thinks, why would you want everyone to vote against him? Just because he holds a certain view (or held, I suppose)?


Minimum wage can work for more socialistic leaning countries just perfectly. The problem with America is that it is two sided, and that both sides generally don't get along unless they have common enemy. Actually a lack of minimum wage most likely would work in a socialistic society as well, as they would most likely want everyone to not be poor as a reflection of the society. 

The reason why the minimum wage concept exists, is because of how much labor was abused in the early development of nation. Infact you could look at developing nations to see exactly what that means. 

Concepts like minimum wage, overtime, vacation time, labour laws exist so that no organization can abuse their employees like they have in the past era. 

Add: Also the two sides doesn't necessarily mean Republican vs Democrat or South vs North. It is way more complicated.

Well, sure, but most socialistic countries have plenty of issues of their own. In a system that relies on the free market, however, it's a poor idea all around because it leaves us with deadweight loss. If people legitimately have no way to make ends meet through their job (and some people will), then that's something that should be addressed via welfare.

Labor laws definitely exist due to good intentions, and some of them may very well be a good idea all things considered (particularly labor laws and overtime). The issue becomes when the government tries to step in and decide how much someone's work is worth.



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the2real4mafol on 20 September 2014
HBninjaX said:

Why? Wage laws are stupid. Why should a bunch of corrupt politicians decide what private business owners should pay? Let the market decide. Switzerland has no wage laws and they have a low 2.3% unemployment rate.

If a job pays too low go work somewhere else.  No one is forcing you to work there.  In fact if another job is paying more then they'll attract more workers than the place that is paying less

Sounds great in theory but what if no other company exists to compete or what if the competition is paying their workers the same shitty wages? Then it isn't so simple. Whenever unemployment is high, companies take the piss out of workers and try to give them as little as possible. it's the opposite in a booming economy but that state can't last forever   



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generic-user-1 on 20 September 2014
HBninjaX said:

Why? Wage laws are stupid. Why should a bunch of corrupt politicians decide what private business owners should pay? Let the market decide. Switzerland has no wage laws and they have a low 2.3% unemployment rate.

If a job pays too low go work somewhere else.  No one is forcing you to work there.  In fact if another job is paying more then they'll attract more workers than the place that is paying less


thats not true... the swiss HAS wage laws and strong unions.

and wage laws are not a problem for the market. they just secure that people with bad but needed jobs get paid a minimum.

and its not free market, its assholesocialism.  we all pay with our taxes the wellfare for those working people that doesnt get paid enough.

im paying the home and food of someons cleaninglady because someone likes a clean house but doesnt like to pay a good price for the cleaning.  thats not fair, and cutting wellfare isnt a good idea too, hungry people steal and fight for food.



MARCUSDJACKSON on 07 October 2014
MTZehvor said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
MTZehvor said:
Trouble with minimum wage is people simply aren't meant to live on it. Raising the minimum wage does nothing in the long run as it does nothing to permanently shift real wages. People working those jobs will end up in just as poor a position as they were beforehand once prices adjust, with nothing to show for it but inflation. It's a good intentioned solution to a major problem, and one that certainly should get more attention, but that's the best I can say about it.

Anyway, regardless of what the guy thinks, why would you want everyone to vote against him? Just because he holds a certain view (or held, I suppose)?


ok i was thinking this but it still leaves the door open for companiese to pay less than whats already offerd. i know that's highly unlikely but the ones that pay minimum wage now, could pay less because there's no minimum. it's like how some people have to work 2 and 3 jobs just to make ends meet when 1 should provide all you need, but that's just wishful thinking.

It's certainly possible, but the flip side of that is that companies may also offer more jobs with lower pay than they would otherwise. Trying to tell the free market that its prices (based on supply and demand) are incorrect is dangerous, because then you rob people of some (admittedly lower paying) opportunities that they could then use as a stepping stone to a better job.

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burninmylight on 07 October 2014
gergroy said:
wow, that is quite a bit of an overreaction to an issue that is proven to be detrimental to the economy. Minimum wage is bad, and should be eliminated. Let the market decide on wages.


What happens when the market decides to abuse the population desperate for work and pay less than what minimum wage is now? I'm against the idea of raising minimum wage as a band-aid to a long-term problem, but I don't think it should be done away with.



Blouge on 07 October 2014

>I don't think it [minimum wage] should be done away with.

So if person A and person B agreed to exchange a certain amount of labor for a certain amount of money and you didn't like their agreement, you think it's OK to shoot one of them or put them in a cage?

Even a child knows that's wrong.



Dr.Henry_Killinger on 07 October 2014
HBninjaX said:

Why? Wage laws are stupid. Why should a bunch of corrupt politicians decide what private business owners should pay? Let the market decide. Switzerland has no wage laws and they have a low 2.3% unemployment rate.

If a job pays too low go work somewhere else.  No one is forcing you to work there.  In fact if another job is paying more then they'll attract more workers than the place that is paying less

They will also hire less workers. And more competition makes it even harder to get the job.

Its really a lot more complicated then 4 lines of a forum post.



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Blouge on 07 October 2014

>The reason why the minimum wage concept exists, is because of how much labor was abused in the early development of nation

Not really. Minimum wage was originally theorized as a means to destroy jobs and to persecute less skilled people, older people, immigrants, etc. It's a means to shove these harmful "parasites" (the eugencist's words, not mine) out of society.

I can find the references if you need it, but I'm sure you can google for it.



Blouge on 07 October 2014

>Its really a lot more complicated then 4 lines of a forum post.

Fine, then read this https://mises.org/books/humanaction.pdf and get back to us.