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Destiny and the flaws in game reviewing systems.

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Vena said:
antfromtashkent said:

Umm or you can just go play PVP and actually have fun while getting stuff like gear as a side effect...? How did it come to this? Lol people just don't play games anymore just to have fun...?


Playing for fun is fine, but you keep tying up "fun" and "rewarding", you're tying up fun in Skinner's Box ideas.


No. Skinners box is cause and effect. You have to do something to get rewarded. This is a fun PVP game where you can get better gear while you are already having fun In the PVP. Are you saying that you would have more fun if there was no reward for the PVP? I'm. Confused. In Rainbow six Vegas I had a blast just by playing with friends and finally getting the custom camo so I could look like a highlighter green idiot. I put more than 300 hours into this game not because I needed that reward but because I was having a blast playing a fun game... It's the same here. 



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antfromtashkent said:

 Are you saying that you would have more fun if there was no reward for the PVP? 


Yes. Because I don't need bigger numbers or "loot" to convince me I am having fun or to extend my ability to have fun. I didn't need numbers or "loot" in any Halo game, and I stopped playing 4 pretty damn fast when "loot" and "rewards" reared their ugly heads in the design decisions. Why? Because it was fun. When you start throwing in rewards, you're working on Skinner's Box as you're tying up "fun" with "rewards", and giving the cause and affect results.

I would certainly have MORE fun in a game where I knew there weren't bullshit powercreeps.

Any game that needs Skinner's Box methology with actual gameplay impacts is a game that has nothing to stand-on but repetition and grind.



Vena said:

antfromtashkent said:

 Are you saying that you would have more fun if there was no reward for the PVP? 


Yes. Because I don't need bigger numbers or "loot" to convince me I am having fun or to extend my ability to have fun. I didn't need numbers or "loot" in any Halo game, and I stopped playing 4 pretty damn fast when "loot" and "rewards" reared their ugly heads in the design decisions. Why? Because it was fun. When you start throwing in rewards, you're working on Skinner's Box as you're tying up "fun" with "rewards", and giving the cause and affect results.

I would certainly have MORE fun in a game where I knew there weren't bullshit powercreeps.

Any game that needs Skinner's Box methology with actual gameplay impacts is a game that has nothing to stand-on but repetition and grind.


Huh? Why do you even care about the better gear? In PVP once you get to lvl 22-24 the gear have marginal effects if at all on the PVP. If you are saying you don't like the PVP for some reason. Which you still haven't provided a good one that's one thing. But you are just grasping at straws here. If you don't like it just because you don't like it just say that. 



antfromtashkent said:

Huh? Why do you even care about the better gear? In PVP once you get to lvl 22-24 the gear have marginal effects if at all on the PVP. If you are saying you don't like the PVP for some reason. Which you still haven't provided a good one that's one thing. But you are just grasping at straws here. If you don't like it just because you don't like it just say that. 


No...

Destiny's PvP is inherently flawed because of the need to grind to reach this "plateau" and even on that "plateau" you have further necessitated grinding for that "optimal" and "legendary" gear. When a game is about skill and people get good at said game, even the smallest statistical different in gear will have effects. There is a definitive carrot on stick gameplay design here, and one that takes away from the gameplay.

Moreover, gear directly ties itself up in the imbalanced abilities and cooldowns (which I've already gone over about how badly implemented they are). Its a house of cards built on a bad design, propped up by bad design that works off of nothing short of nuerotic addictions. There is no longevity to Destiny's designs aside from Bungie's own, "You really need to play for 20 hours to start seeing the game as Stockholm's Syndrome kicks in." When a developer says bullshit like that, you should be ready to throw their game to the pyre. What were the first 20 hours in their eyes? Some sort of necessary trial by fire to get to the good parts?

They made an average game with solid gameplay mechanics painted in a layer of terrible design choices. And they didn't help themselves with hyping the game to kingdomcome.



Vena said:
antfromtashkent said:

Huh? Why do you even care about the better gear? In PVP once you get to lvl 22-24 the gear have marginal effects if at all on the PVP. If you are saying you don't like the PVP for some reason. Which you still haven't provided a good one that's one thing. But you are just grasping at straws here. If you don't like it just because you don't like it just say that. 


No...

Destiny's PvP is inherently flawed because of the need to grind to reach this "plateau" and even on that "plateau" you have further necessitated grinding for that "optimal" and "legendary" gear. When a game is about skill and people get good at said game, even the smallest statistical different in gear will have effects. There is a definitive carrot on stick gameplay design here, and one that takes away from the gameplay.

Moreover, gear directly ties itself up in the imbalanced abilities and cooldowns (which I've already gone over about how badly implemented they are). Its a house of cards built on a bad design, propped up by bad design that works off of nothing short of nuerotic addictions. There is no longevity to Destiny's designs aside from Bungie's own, "You really need to play for 20 hours to start seeing the game as Stockholm's Syndrome kicks in." When a developer says bullshit like that, you should be ready to throw their game to the pyre. What were the first 20 hours in their eyes? Some sort of necessary trial by fire to get to the good parts?

They made an average game with solid gameplay mechanics painted in a layer of terrible design choices. And they didn't help themselves with hyping the game to kingdomcome.


You keep on using phychology terms and im not sure why since they dont fit. No one is making you play Destiny lol. You knew going into this that its a loot based FPS no? Or are you going to say that Bungie hyped something different? Like I said, 22-24 you get gear that have the same effect as epic gear does. Ex: Reduce cooldown, or cary more amo. It all the bloody same weather its blue or purple. The epic gear is for end game raids. But aparantly you are not interested in that ether? Fine.

If you ever get good enough to the point of using things like 5 more bullets FOR YOUR PRIMARY WEAPON in every PVP match without getting killed as an advantage then chances are you already played enough to get great gear (eventhough the same efect can be found on a LVL 14 blue item). Im still trying to figgure out what Bungie hyped that people took as such a slap to the face that wasnt included. Perhaps you can enlighten me?



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Shoestar said:
The flaws in game reviewing systems.

I finally got a chance to play Destiny (for about 6-7hrs)...

it's at least a 9/10.

I sense some sarcasm in the topic creators post.



antfromtashkent said:

Im still trying to figgure out what Bungie hyped that people took as such a slap to the face that wasnt included. Perhaps you can enlighten me?

A good game.

I am playing it because I have friends playing it to take a break from Halo and DotA for a while, we won't be playing it for long. If I had been alone, I wouldn't be playing it at all.



Vena said:

antfromtashkent said:

Im still trying to figgure out what Bungie hyped that people took as such a slap to the face that wasnt included. Perhaps you can enlighten me?

A good game.

I am playing it because I have friends playing it to take a break from Halo and DotA for a while, we won't be playing it for long. If I had been alone, I wouldn't be playing it at all.


Ok cool. You don't like it cause' reasons. This goes back to the OP. I'm sure the professional reviewers felt the same way as you. 



antfromtashkent said:

Ok cool. You don't like it cause' reasons. This goes back to the OP. I'm sure the professional reviewers felt the same way as you. 


My reasons have been explicitly stated. There is no hyperbolic "cuz reasons", to fail to acknowledge this is to fail to have a defense of a point and resorting to strawman.

If you can't deal with the fact that I think the game is an inbalanced, inherently poorly designed and broken game for PvP with a subpar, repetitive Skinner's Box PvE grindfest that has a story written by a two year old, then I am sorry but them's the breaks. Bungie promised something grand, all I got was a child's pasta art with a crayon doodle on it.



For trying to be considered an mmo it has a lot of slow loading screens, and you can only have 16 people in an area at a time in your instance.