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Forums - Politics Discussion - Former Auschwitz guard, 93, charged with accessory to 300,000 murders in Germany

enditall727 on 17 September 2014
Dunban67 said:
enditall727 said:
Aerys said:
Lawlight said:
If he was just a simple guard, what else could he have done but follow orders?


Yep, people are stupid to want to charge a simple soldier. Nobody talks about this side of the story, the soldiers were forced to do that, it was a " you are with me or against me " politic and when you have the choice of protecting your life and the life of your family, you do the logic choice.

The only thing that could be punished is unnecessary violence from some SS guards for pleasure

You're right but you also have to remember that with this logic, NOBODY is at fault for what happened. EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL below Hitler in the 3rd Reich was just following orders.

 

They could've easily overthrew Hitler BUT THEY DIDN'T! They LOVED what was happening. Hitler strategically boiled the racism to an outragous point in those days so it made it easier for people to justify doing this to other people. They weren't just helpless soldiers. They knew wtf they were doing.. well.. most of them

There was an attempted coop agAinst Hitler that included some of the most powerful people in Germany like General Rommel-  It failed and they were executed 

This was before the concentration camp thing, right? I know about the people who were on to what Hitler might've done and he pretty much had them killed.



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enditall727 on 17 September 2014
Ostro said:
pokoko said:
enditall727 said:

You're right but you also have to remember that with this logic, NOBODY is at fault for what happened. EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL below Hitler in the 3rd Reich was just following orders.

 

They could've easily overthrew Hitler BUT THEY DIDN'T! They LOVED what was happening. Hitler strategically boiled the racism to an outragous point in those days so it made it easier for people to justify doing this to other people. They weren't just helpless soldiers. They knew wtf they were doing.. well.. most of them

What ...

No.  You don't easily topple a military regime.  The Gestapo was a powerful and extensive secret police network that kept the whole country in fear.  People were executed simply for questioning the government.  You could end up in the torture chamber for nothing more than a stray negative comment.  And you know what else?  Your entire family could, as well.


But he said he is the king of WW2 history so he knows better!!

Anybody going on like all Germans back then wanted it and deserve to be punished aren't any better than Nazis who killed Jews just because they were Jews. Just like all of the world's leaders are rightfully elected and respected and followed by 100% of their nation... right.

And of course, facebook and twitter were allround before 1930 so everybody should have known about the secrets before it escalated into a WW just like we all knew about the internet spying way before 2000... right. (well, some did but nobody listened lol)


Are you talking about me being the WW2 king? Lol

 

I hope you're not saying that I'm talking about German people. I'M TALKING ABOUT NAZI'S!! When I think of a German, I think of a regular human being. When I think of a Nazi, I think of an extreme racial fuelled individual among other things. And I definitely didn't say that all German people need to be punished so I dont know what the hell you're talking about.

 

Also Hitler pretty much expressed his hatred for JEWS BEFORE he became FURER. So if you're trying to act as if the people were sooooooo helpless and had absolutely no clue of the things that took place then.. you would be wrong



Scisca on 18 September 2014
Max... said:

This post is just ridiculous. Maybe you should start to become familiar with what actually happened and start to understand historical patterns. I am about to become a teacher for German history, that's why I can't stand what you were writing, because it's just not the truth. After WW1 and especially after the Treaty of Versaille, Germany (actually the Weimar Republic) was in extremely bad shape. People lived in total misery, there was a high unemployement rate. Then this charismatic guy called Hitler came and promised to make things better. And people believed him and actually they weren't the only ones. The European governments and also the US government ... he fooled them all. Because the thing was: At first, he made things better for the Germans. After his early achievments, they all were blind to his real intentions though he has already made them clear in his book (Mein Kampf) in 1925 (eight years prior to his election). But they didn't wanna see that, they didn't want to have another war (Conduct of Appeasement).

What I basically wanna say is: The Germans were definitely not having "the time of their lives". They were not looking for everyone to get killed, they were looking for them to get their miserable lifes better. In addition to that, resistance during the time after the election was punishable by death. Yes, the German people lived in fear. The Nazi regime are the ones who were responsible for the massacres, not the German people. They elected Hitler six years before WW2 started, not thinking about war but about making their lifes better.


I know very well what happened, it's a part of my own history you know. As you say - he wasn't hiding his goals at any moment, they were clear from the start. Being stupid, ignorant or turning a blind eye to some facts and focusing on other things is no excuse, so your argument is invalid.

And no. Hitler hasn't fooled everyone. The Polish leader Piłsudski saw what was coming and talked to France and UK about attacking Germany before they turn into the monster they eventually turned into. He planned an attack in 1933 and later in 34, when Poland alone was more powerful than Germany, but obviously France was against it (cowards). I think he should have done what he wanted to do and ignore that stupid West. The ignorance of Western leaders is unbelievable, you were fooled by Hitler, fooled by Stalin and now you are being fooled by Putin - all in the same fashion. You never learn. If I was leading my country know, I wouldn't give a damn as to what the West says as well.

They were trying to improve their miserable lives in early 30s - true, but their life was anything but miserable in late 30s. I absolutely stand by what I've said and won't accept pitying the Germans and the "fear" they lived in, not when other people around them lived in inhumane terror caused by the very same Germans. It's like Americans earning the average American wage were complaining about being poor when surrounded by starving children from Somalia - you can't do that. It's obvious that there always is a handful of people that thinks differently, but the absolute bulk of the Germans loved Hitler and wanted to fulfill his vision. Now, after that dream was destroyed, they can't all hide behind the handful of people who were against it. Especially a guy who worked in a death camp, sorry but you can't automatically turn him into an innocent victim. You can't turn the murderers into victims.

It sounds cruel, but for this one reason I'm glad that out of all nations the Jews were the main victims of the Germans (pity my nation was the second...). They always get the job done and take care of business. And they never forgive. Hurt them and when they get the upper hand - you are in for a world of pain. That's something I respect. The Jews were never like "oh yes, deep inside they didn't really want to kill us", "it's not you, it's the system". They went after the Germans and still keep them in check when it comes to what they did, as is proven by this article. They don't accept any such crap as the stuff you are serving here. And I fully support that.



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Dunban67 on 18 September 2014
enditall727 said:
Dunban67 said:
enditall727 said:
Aerys said:
Lawlight said:
If he was just a simple guard, what else could he have done but follow orders?


Yep, people are stupid to want to charge a simple soldier. Nobody talks about this side of the story, the soldiers were forced to do that, it was a " you are with me or against me " politic and when you have the choice of protecting your life and the life of your family, you do the logic choice.

The only thing that could be punished is unnecessary violence from some SS guards for pleasure

You're right but you also have to remember that with this logic, NOBODY is at fault for what happened. EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL below Hitler in the 3rd Reich was just following orders.

 

They could've easily overthrew Hitler BUT THEY DIDN'T! They LOVED what was happening. Hitler strategically boiled the racism to an outragous point in those days so it made it easier for people to justify doing this to other people. They weren't just helpless soldiers. They knew wtf they were doing.. well.. most of them

There was an attempted coop agAinst Hitler that included some of the most powerful people in Germany like General Rommel-  It failed and they were executed 

This was before the concentration camp thing, right? I know about the people who were on to what Hitler might've done and he pretty much had them killed.

The coop attempt was well after the war started-  concentration camps and thier predecessors started before the war    ( of course "the War" started on many different dates depending on which country perspective you take)