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Forums - Politics Discussion - Former Auschwitz guard, 93, charged with accessory to 300,000 murders in Germany

Aerys said:
Lawlight said:
If he was just a simple guard, what else could he have done but follow orders?


Yep, people are stupid to want to charge a simple soldier. Nobody talks about this side of the story, the soldiers were forced to do that, it was a " you are with me or against me " politic and when you have the choice of protecting your life and the life of your family, you do the logic choice.

The only thing that could be punished is unnecessary violence from some SS guards for pleasure

You're right but you also have to remember that with this logic, NOBODY is at fault for what happened. EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL below Hitler in the 3rd Reich was just following orders.

 

They could've easily overthrew Hitler BUT THEY DIDN'T! They LOVED what was happening. Hitler strategically boiled the racism to an outragous point in those days so it made it easier for people to justify doing this to other people. They weren't just helpless soldiers. They knew wtf they were doing.. well.. most of them



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Lawlight said:
enditall727 said:
Lawlight said:
If he was just a simple guard, what else could he have done but follow orders?


That's the thing. They were just following orders/doing their job. But there comes a point where you have to pay attention to wtf is going on around you.

 

If you worked at mcdonalds and your boss told you to put tacks in this spevific guys burger, what would you do? You take responsibility at some point.

 

I can imagine how much harder it would be back then for a german to get out of the Naxi regime. I would imagine that they would probably deem you as some type of traitor and kill you if you tried to stand up and stop them.

 

Actually.. I'm pretty sure this probably happened but we just dont know about it.. there's nobody really left to tell the untold syories of what went on then.

 

If I was a Nazi back then, I wouldn't have been able to become used to stuff like that. I would've attempted to quite or or made plans to GET THE FUCK OUT OF GERMANY if the situation arose to thst point


Sorry but you're comparing being shot or worse to getting fired from McDonald's. It's easy to sit here and say that you would have attempted something but I think it'd be tad more complicated if you were actually there.


Yea I know

 

And you understand the point I was trying to make with the mcdonalds thing so I'm not trying to here that Lol

 

But yea, i would've been able to avoid all of that because I wouldn't have joined the Nazi's in the 1st place. I would've just opted to be a regular ass German back then who probably would've attempted to help the jewish people flee. I would've been the German who would've been forced by russia to clean up the bodies of the people the germans killed after the war ended.

 

If this happened today, I would do the same. You aint gonna make me join some racist shit I dont want to join.I wouldn't give a fuck if it was involving my race  or not. You're just going to have to shoot me, bitch!!



enditall727 said:

You're right but you also have to remember that with this logic, NOBODY is at fault for what happened. EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL below Hitler in the 3rd Reich was just following orders.

 

They could've easily overthrew Hitler BUT THEY DIDN'T! They LOVED what was happening. Hitler strategically boiled the racism to an outragous point in those days so it made it easier for people to justify doing this to other people. They weren't just helpless soldiers. They knew wtf they were doing.. well.. most of them

What ...

No.  You don't easily topple a military regime.  The Gestapo was a powerful and extensive secret police network that kept the whole country in fear.  People were executed simply for questioning the government.  You could end up in the torture chamber for nothing more than a stray negative comment.  And you know what else?  Your entire family could, as well.



OdinHades said:
Can't we just let WW2 behind us already and move along? We have bigger fish to fry.

Do you mean that in the sense that we should completely forget about the things that happened or that we should stop prosecuting people that took part in this? I just want to be sure.



enditall727 said:

Edit: I followed WW2 HARD so I thought I knew everything that went on around those times like the russian experiment where they kept a select few prisoners awake for 15 days and the horrors that happened in those 15 days.

 


When I first read it, it scared the shit out of me, but later I found out it was just a fake story made by Creepypasta, although it was one hell of a story.



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Aerys said:
Lawlight said:
If he was just a simple guard, what else could he have done but follow orders?


Yep, people are stupid to want to charge a simple soldier. Nobody talks about this side of the story, the soldiers were forced to do that, it was a " you are with me or against me " politic and when you have the choice of protecting your life and the life of your family, you do the logic choice.

The only thing that could be punished is unnecessary violence from some SS guards for pleasure


So now the poor Germans were forced to do what they did? Good to know. I always thought that they actually loved Hitler, they chose him in democratic elections and they wanted to follow him and bring his vision to life. Good thing you're telling me they are the nation of victims, as I've always, mistakingly as it appears, saw them as the nation of the oppressors. How foolish of me.

The article is very gentle in describing what the guy was doing. "dealing with the belongings stolen from camp victims, (...) helping collect and tally money that was found." In reality that meant shaving the dead bodies, looting them, pulling gold teeth out, etc. before the bodies were burned. You won't convince me that somebody who did that for a living doesn't deserve punishment, cause it was just his job, just orders - so it's cool. Every single German who aided this machine mass-murdering Jews, Poles and Gypsies should be punished. No way around it.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

enditall727 said:
Aerys said:
Lawlight said:
If he was just a simple guard, what else could he have done but follow orders?


Yep, people are stupid to want to charge a simple soldier. Nobody talks about this side of the story, the soldiers were forced to do that, it was a " you are with me or against me " politic and when you have the choice of protecting your life and the life of your family, you do the logic choice.

The only thing that could be punished is unnecessary violence from some SS guards for pleasure

You're right but you also have to remember that with this logic, NOBODY is at fault for what happened. EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL below Hitler in the 3rd Reich was just following orders.

 

They could've easily overthrew Hitler BUT THEY DIDN'T! They LOVED what was happening. Hitler strategically boiled the racism to an outragous point in those days so it made it easier for people to justify doing this to other people. They weren't just helpless soldiers. They knew wtf they were doing.. well.. most of them


Nothing says they loved what they were doing, fear is a powerful weapon, most of us here would have done the same thing, follow orders because you cant trust others, someone could tell you " ok, i'm with you for revolution" and then report you to his commander to put you in jail, in these times of fear, you had to follow orders, it has nothing to do with loving or not the job.


And of course a lot of people were at fault, like i said, those who obviously took pleasure in it by unnecessary things against victims, and of course those who gave the orders, the big commanders.

It was really a difficult time anyway, so it's difficult to say who was wrong or not, but it's easy to put the blame on poor soldiers just to take revenge in any way...But it's useless, nothing says this guy deserves this.



Predictions for end of 2014 HW sales:

 PS4: 17m   XB1: 10m    WiiU: 10m   Vita: 10m

 

Scisca said:
Aerys said:
Lawlight said:
If he was just a simple guard, what else could he have done but follow orders?


Yep, people are stupid to want to charge a simple soldier. Nobody talks about this side of the story, the soldiers were forced to do that, it was a " you are with me or against me " politic and when you have the choice of protecting your life and the life of your family, you do the logic choice.

The only thing that could be punished is unnecessary violence from some SS guards for pleasure


So now the poor Germans were forced to do what they did? Good to know. I always thought that they actually loved Hitler, they chose him in democratic elections and they wanted to follow him and bring his vision to life. Good thing you're telling me they are the nation of victims, as I've always, mistakingly as it appears, saw them as the nation of the oppressors. How foolish of me.

The article is very gentle in describing what the guy was doing. "dealing with the belongings stolen from camp victims, (...) helping collect and tally money that was found." In reality that meant shaving the dead bodies, looting them, pulling gold teeth out, etc. before the bodies were burned. You won't convince me that somebody who did that for a living doesn't deserve punishment, cause it was just his job, just orders - so it's cool. Every single German who aided this machine mass-murdering Jews, Poles and Gypsies should be punished. No way around it.


Are you serious ? Or do you really believe that all  germans really choosed him knowing what he intended to do ? They were maybe blind but it's not a crime. ( and you know, most of people who chose someone in a democratic election dont read all his program, they just choose someone who speaks well, charismatic, that's how Hitler got them)

And when the truth came, it was too late to go back.

It's really easy to say this now, but if you were a german soldier at this time,  you would have surely done the same thing, obeying to orders to not get you or your family killed.



Predictions for end of 2014 HW sales:

 PS4: 17m   XB1: 10m    WiiU: 10m   Vita: 10m

 

Aerys said:

Nothing says they loved what they were doing, fear is a powerful weapon, most of us here would have done the same thing, follow orders because you cant trust others, someone could tell you " ok, i'm with you for revolution" and then report you to his commander to put you in jail, in these times of fear, you had to follow orders, it has nothing to do with loving or not the job.


And of course a lot of people were at fault, like i said, those who obviously took pleasure in it by unnecessary things against victims, and of course those who gave the orders, the big commanders.

It was really a difficult time anyway, so it's difficult to say who was wrong or not, but it's easy to put the blame on poor soldiers just to take revenge in any way...But it's useless, nothing says this guy deserves this.


Dude, stop turning the executor into the victim.

Fear? Seriously, FEAR!? The Germans were having the time of their lives, they weren't living in fear. Other people were - in fear of the Germans.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

Duty as a Guard = Detect, Deter, Observe, and Report.

Did he do anything beyond that? We don't know.



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