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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Digital Foundry: Hands-on with Bayonetta 2

fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

You said yourself that v-sync is a double edged sword. The plus side it that it cuts out ugly and distracting screen tearing, which the 360 version of Bayonetta suffers from in abundance. The negative side is that it can impact framerate by locking the GPU down to a set rate instead of letting it tear frames to run faster.

The 360 version of Bayo opted to tear frames rather than make the framerate drop any further than it already does. Bayo 2 went the other way, enforcing a strict no tearing policy, likely because the GPU could keep a decent pace without going out of sync.

Locking a framerate is mostly optional ... V sync as the name implies only eliminates screen tearing. V sync will lock the frame time a display can refresh however it does not lock the average framerate

The negative like I specifically said was that it can manifest stuttering with variable framerates which is generally bad for controller response. 

Like I said before, v sync does almost nothing to your average framerate but it can potentially deliver frames inconsistently which will cause stutter.

Are we clear ? 

That's what I meant by locking; not locking the framerate to a certain fps, but locking refresh rate to frame time.

And really, both games have stuttering framerates, with and without v-sync.



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curl-6 said:

That's what I meant by locking; not locking the framerate to a certain fps, but locking refresh rate to frame time.

And really, both games have stuttering framerates, with and without v-sync.

Not true I'm afraid ... Stuttering like I said is mostly caused by frame pacing issues which is mostly attributed to the fact that v sync causes the frames to be delivered on the display with strict adherence to the frame times.

If a game doesn't have v sync then they don't have to deliver the frames in accordance to the displays required frame time hence a higher variable framerate actually translating to a better gameplay experience in which case this means that Bayonetta 1 on the xbox 360 is the smoother experience out of the two so long as the user deals with the screen tearing. 

Do you get it now ? I won't be discussing this subject anymore since it's off topic so PM me if you wish to know more of what I'm talking about ... 



fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

That's what I meant by locking; not locking the framerate to a certain fps, but locking refresh rate to frame time.

And really, both games have stuttering framerates, with and without v-sync.

Not true I'm afraid ... Stuttering like I said is mostly caused by frame pacing issues which is mostly attributed to the fact that v sync causes the frames to be delivered on the display with strict adherence to the frame times.

If a game doesn't have v sync then they don't have to deliver the frames in accordance to the displays required frame time hence a higher variable framerate actually translating to a better gameplay experience in which case this means that Bayonetta 1 on the xbox 360 is the smoother experience out of the two so long as the user deals with the screen tearing. 

Do you get it now ? I won't be discussing this subject anymore since it's off topic so PM me if you wish to know more of what I'm talking about ... 

The 360 version "stutters" between 60fps and 40fps though, much like Bayo 2. It runs a little higher on average, but I reckon that's a pretty fair tradeoff for a tear-free image and greater scale and complexity.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. No hard feelings man.



A disadvantage of using deferred rendering techniques, due to separating the lighting stage from the geometric stage, is that hardware anti-aliasing does not produce correct results any more. This is the main reason there isn't any AA in Mario Kart 8. Why Bayonetta 2 aint using it is prolly for the same reason.

Expect, at least Nintendo, to stick with the 720p/60fps/no AA standard going forward.



Incubi said:

A disadvantage of using deferred rendering techniques, due to separating the lighting stage from the geometric stage, is that hardware anti-aliasing does not produce correct results any more. This is the main reason there isn't any AA in Mario Kart 8. Why Bayonetta 2 aint using it is prolly for the same reason.

Expect, at least Nintendo, to stick with the 720p/60fps/no AA standard going forward.

Shin'en is using deferred rendering for Art of Balance and FAST Racing Neo, but they're apparently still employing AA. Then again, they've long had impeccable technical standards.

As far as Nintendo itself goes though, you are probably right.



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That it isn't 60fps especially in moments where it is needed the most isn't very nice but all the other stuff..well, the game won't be less fun as it would be on PS4 or XBO just because it could look better on these consoles.



DAY1 for me! Looks amazing, do not care for technical info much!



I think what is really bad is no AA at 720p. I'm surprised they didn't bother with even a simple FXAA.



And any chance of pre-viewing the actual game...??

That preview is rediculous.



torok said:
I think what is really bad is no AA at 720p. I'm surprised they didn't bother with even a simple FXAA.

Surprises me too, as FXAA is pretty cheap and well established in some of the system's best looking games, but 720p/no AA was the template for the original game, so it seems they decided to just keep that and focus the upgrades on scale, detail, and v-sync.