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Forums - Politics Discussion - Why is the American government/ Empire so keen on war all the time?

the2real4mafol said:
Captain_Tom said:
the2real4mafol said:

#1. There are alot of people on this world so, many can hate America with others loving it. Also, prove? Or is that patriotic nonsense!?

#2 No of course not, I never justified them but i'm not sure if another war will solve anything. The west has to work with the ordinary Iraqis and Syrians to disband ISIS. Blindly bombing whatever the fuck you like would be counter productive. Any action made must be to improve the lives of people and their wellbeing so they won't be compelled to go to the likes of ISIS. 

Also how do you expect to beat ISIS when your country couldn't beat the Taliban? 

Also abit rich saying about ISIS massacring people. The US government has supported some nasty leaders/ regimes over the years who were almost as bad or just as bad as ISIS. Pol Pot, Pinochet, Suharto, Saddam Hussein, Batista, Armas,  South African Apartheid to name a few. The US government has overthrown anyone who it disagrees with. Some were justified but the people the US backed were nearly always worse 

#3 And the problem with that is that only makes the problems worse. The situation in alot of the countries was shit to begin with. Drone strikes only destroy whatever is left. That radicalises people as the system failed them. 

Also, as far as i know ISIS never attacked America but probably will soon if they get provoked. 

I say give these people (ordinary citizens of the Middle East not ISIS) jobs and allow them to have a better standard of living not war. 

Also, don't you find it weird that one year ago the US government wanted to topple Assad's Regime in Syria but now has to work with him to try to end ISIS somehow? 


1) http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/06/us-americans-cool-survey-idUSTRE7852H320110906

 

2)

a) Will a war solve anything?  It already saved Kurdistan from a masscre.  I really wish some of those families who barily survived the ISIS onslaught were next to you right now so you could tell them that maybe they would have been ok without America's help.

b) Yeah the U.S.  has supported some shitty people.  Who hasn't?  What is your point?  "America did bad things before so whawwww!"  Let the past be the past.  

c)  What country are you from?  Just for comparison's sake.

3) LOL now you are losing me.  Give these people jobs?  Ok let me wave my magic job wand.  It isn't that simple bud.  Also we still don't like Assad, and you know we didn't like the Soviet Union during WWII.  But guess what?  The Nazi's and ISIS are worse.  DUH.

1. Not suprising when American culture is in most people's faces alot of the time

2a. I just think America has to be careful with its foreign policy. Intervention can be justified and stuff like saving the Yazidis and Kurds from the rath of ISIS was clearly justified. Doesn't mean bombing is the only solution. The Americans must work with these people rather than dictate policy from a far away office who have no real clue of the situation. 

2b. I can't ignore the past because the actions that were done in the past are why some areas are so messed up today. We can't forget the past no matter how hard we try. We must learn from it

2c. The UK. Whats your point? If it's about what my country we did in the past in it's empire we were just as bad. It's why i'm not a patriot, nothing really to be proud of. 

3. Politics is unfortunately full of it. Work with people you hate to destroy someone you hate even more and then backstab the people you worked with. Its disgraceful but politics is like this. 

1. Oh so now people are "Wrong" for not hating America?  get over yourself buddy.

2a. America DOES have to be carefull with its foreign policy.  I hope it is abundently clear that this has been realized considering we aren't invading Iraq again.

2b. Again, how are we not learning from the past?  The current coalition against ISIS shows that we understand that these wars to be won by local boots on the ground.

2c.  Just got back from Carlisle, lovely country.  However let's not throw stones in a house of glass ok?  The U.K. is the U.S.'s greatest military ally who was one of the only countries in the EU to aid our invasion, and attributed the most non-US soldiers.  I mean we are talking about Imperial England here.  Don't be surprised if English bombers are flying over Syria by the end of the year.

3.  Yes the world is not a perfect place.  However sometimes there are only "Bad" choices to some decisions.  Just out of curiosity what would you do about ISIS?  Keep in mind that millions of innocent are at stake and there are many of your countries (Pretending you are the U.S.) facilities and property at risk.



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Captain_Tom said:
the2real4mafol said:
Captain_Tom said:
the2real4mafol said:

#1. There are alot of people on this world so, many can hate America with others loving it. Also, prove? Or is that patriotic nonsense!?

#2 No of course not, I never justified them but i'm not sure if another war will solve anything. The west has to work with the ordinary Iraqis and Syrians to disband ISIS. Blindly bombing whatever the fuck you like would be counter productive. Any action made must be to improve the lives of people and their wellbeing so they won't be compelled to go to the likes of ISIS. 

Also how do you expect to beat ISIS when your country couldn't beat the Taliban? 

Also abit rich saying about ISIS massacring people. The US government has supported some nasty leaders/ regimes over the years who were almost as bad or just as bad as ISIS. Pol Pot, Pinochet, Suharto, Saddam Hussein, Batista, Armas,  South African Apartheid to name a few. The US government has overthrown anyone who it disagrees with. Some were justified but the people the US backed were nearly always worse 

#3 And the problem with that is that only makes the problems worse. The situation in alot of the countries was shit to begin with. Drone strikes only destroy whatever is left. That radicalises people as the system failed them. 

Also, as far as i know ISIS never attacked America but probably will soon if they get provoked. 

I say give these people (ordinary citizens of the Middle East not ISIS) jobs and allow them to have a better standard of living not war. 

Also, don't you find it weird that one year ago the US government wanted to topple Assad's Regime in Syria but now has to work with him to try to end ISIS somehow? 


1) http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/06/us-americans-cool-survey-idUSTRE7852H320110906

 

2)

a) Will a war solve anything?  It already saved Kurdistan from a masscre.  I really wish some of those families who barily survived the ISIS onslaught were next to you right now so you could tell them that maybe they would have been ok without America's help.

b) Yeah the U.S.  has supported some shitty people.  Who hasn't?  What is your point?  "America did bad things before so whawwww!"  Let the past be the past.  

c)  What country are you from?  Just for comparison's sake.

3) LOL now you are losing me.  Give these people jobs?  Ok let me wave my magic job wand.  It isn't that simple bud.  Also we still don't like Assad, and you know we didn't like the Soviet Union during WWII.  But guess what?  The Nazi's and ISIS are worse.  DUH.

1. Not suprising when American culture is in most people's faces alot of the time

2a. I just think America has to be careful with its foreign policy. Intervention can be justified and stuff like saving the Yazidis and Kurds from the rath of ISIS was clearly justified. Doesn't mean bombing is the only solution. The Americans must work with these people rather than dictate policy from a far away office who have no real clue of the situation. 

2b. I can't ignore the past because the actions that were done in the past are why some areas are so messed up today. We can't forget the past no matter how hard we try. We must learn from it

2c. The UK. Whats your point? If it's about what my country we did in the past in it's empire we were just as bad. It's why i'm not a patriot, nothing really to be proud of. 

3. Politics is unfortunately full of it. Work with people you hate to destroy someone you hate even more and then backstab the people you worked with. Its disgraceful but politics is like this. 

1. Oh so now people are "Wrong" for not hating America?  get over yourself buddy.

2a. America DOES have to be carefull with its foreign policy.  I hope it is abundently clear that this has been realized considering we aren't invading Iraq again.

2b. Again, how are we not learning from the past?  The current coalition against ISIS shows that we understand that these wars to be won by local boots on the ground.

2c.  Just got back from Carlisle, lovely country.  However let's not throw stones in a house of glass ok?  The U.K. is the U.S.'s greatest military ally who was one of the only countries in the EU to aid our invasion, and attributed the most non-US soldiers.  I mean we are talking about Imperial England here.  Don't be surprised if English bombers are flying over Syria by the end of the year.

3.  Yes the world is not a perfect place.  However sometimes there are only "Bad" choices to some decisions.  Just out of curiosity what would you do about ISIS?  Keep in mind that millions of innocent are at stake and there are many of your countries (Pretending you are the U.S.) facilities and property at risk.

1. I don't get your problem but that poll is based on fuck all. Being cool has a very changeable meaning 

2a. I get that but its very easy to get stuck into Iraq again. I mean Vietnam started with sending just a few hundred troops and a couple ships and then something kicks off and before you know a full blown war starts. Maybe not the same but it seems similar

2b. You said 'let the past be the past' implying lets forget everything we ever did. At least thats how i interpreted it. 

2c. Depends on the parliament vote i guess if there is one. But you're probably right 

Also i assume you mean ww2. The UK was the only country that could really help America. France was occupied. Russia was too far away and the rest were fascists (Germany and East Europe) or simply weren't involved (Spain and Portugal) 

3. I'm normally against intervention but with the likes of ISIS i'd firstly send military equipment to the Kurdish Peshmerga and the Syrian Army, probably the Iraqi army too but they don't seem to really exist no more. I'd likely use bombing to try to contain ISIS forces but communication is key. Sending an American army in would be last resort and thats if the Kurds and Syrians are badly losing. Has to be diplomacy and aid first. Not sure if we could of stopped those supposed beheadings though



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Nem said:


For someone claiming to know his WWII, Germany lost because they were fighting a war on 2 fronts. That and Hitler's bad sense of timing.

Germany was close to developing the atom bomb. If they only had to hold off Russia, they could have eventually turned the tide in a tragic manner. Also, the advantage that the red army had was the cold weather. As they advanced towards europe they would lose that advantage and would be at the mercy of blitzkrieg. Lets also not forget that Germany would have great aerial advantage if not for the war with Britain.

The defeats in Russia stopped the German advance, but Russia would struggle to march on Berlin by themselves.

So, yeah, i think the allied forces were only able to win because they worked together, and touche to your BWAHAHA! Sad for you i know my WW2 very well.


I like talking about Germany and WW2. I think its interesting history. I think people put too much into the lost of the war against Russia being the cold. Germany while had it rough advancing through the weather, still made progress. Hitler making decisions was the problem. He should have listened to his commanders and took their advice but on the occasion with one particular commander, he would never second guess Hitler. He was too loyal. Hitler wanted to take Stalingrad to humilate Stalin. What he did was terrible. He split the armory and the troops up. The troops tried to take Stalingrad with no tanks or artillery and met heavy resistance. They hit most casualities before even entering Stalingrad. Russia at the right timing had finished a line of a new tank that the Germans started to fear.

An interesting thing is that Stalin like Hitler wouldn't listen to his commanders too. He got thousands of his troops killed by refusing to retreat.



Keegs79 said:
Nem said:
 


For someone claiming to know his WWII, Germany lost because they were fighting a war on 2 fronts. That and Hitler's bad sense of timing.

Germany was close to developing the atom bomb. If they only had to hold off Russia, they could have eventually turned the tide in a tragic manner. Also, the advantage that the red army had was the cold weather. As they advanced towards europe they would lose that advantage and would be at the mercy of blitzkrieg. Lets also not forget that Germany would have great aerial advantage if not for the war with Britain.

The defeats in Russia stopped the German advance, but Russia would struggle to march on Berlin by themselves.

So, yeah, i think the allied forces were only able to win because they worked together, and touche to your BWAHAHA! Sad for you i know my WW2 very well.


I like talking about Germany and WW2. I think its interesting history. I think people put too much into the lost of the war against Russia being the cold. Germany while had it rough advancing through the weather, still made progress. Hitler making decisions was the problem. He should have listened to his commanders and took their advice but on the occasion with one particular commander, he would never second guess Hitler. He was too loyal. Hitler wanted to take Stalingrad to humilate Stalin. What he did was terrible. He split the armory and the troops up. The troops tried to take Stalingrad with no tanks or artillery and met heavy resistance. They hit most casualities before even entering Stalingrad. Russia at the right timing had finished a line of a new tank that the Germans started to fear.

An interesting thing is that Stalin like Hitler wouldn't listen to his commanders too. He got thousands of his troops killed by refusing to retreat.


Dictators and their visions of grandeur. Humanity took a turn to the worse during the early years of last century that brought about today's liberty, freedom of speech and general way of thinking. Its so easy to forget the value of these today. If those characters had won the war, we would still be living in a much darker, twisted world, where people are tools for tyrants to use on their psycho tirades. Its easy to forget now, because they are taken for granted.



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ha ha, US Arms groups affiliated with the Taliban, Al Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood and even ISIS and then just goes and fights them. They are such a joke now, it is amazing that people still trust the states. So many lies and manipulators to justify war.




1. Oh so now people are "Wrong" for not hating America?  get over yourself buddy.

2a. America DOES have to be carefull with its foreign policy.  I hope it is abundently clear that this has been realized considering we aren't invading Iraq again.

2b. Again, how are we not learning from the past?  The current coalition against ISIS shows that we understand that these wars to be won by local boots on the ground.

2c.  Just got back from Carlisle, lovely country.  However let's not throw stones in a house of glass ok?  The U.K. is the U.S.'s greatest military ally who was one of the only countries in the EU to aid our invasion, and attributed the most non-US soldiers.  I mean we are talking about Imperial England here.  Don't be surprised if English bombers are flying over Syria by the end of the year.

3.  Yes the world is not a perfect place.  However sometimes there are only "Bad" choices to some decisions.  Just out of curiosity what would you do about ISIS?  Keep in mind that millions of innocent are at stake and there are many of your countries (Pretending you are the U.S.) facilities and property at risk.

1. I don't get your problem but that poll is based on fuck all. Being cool has a very changeable meaning 

2a. I get that but its very easy to get stuck into Iraq again. I mean Vietnam started with sending just a few hundred troops and a couple ships and then something kicks off and before you know a full blown war starts. Maybe not the same but it seems similar

2b. You said 'let the past be the past' implying lets forget everything we ever did. At least thats how i interpreted it. 

2c. Depends on the parliament vote i guess if there is one. But you're probably right 

Also i assume you mean ww2. The UK was the only country that could really help America. France was occupied. Russia was too far away and the rest were fascists (Germany and East Europe) or simply weren't involved (Spain and Portugal) 

3. I'm normally against intervention but with the likes of ISIS i'd firstly send military equipment to the Kurdish Peshmerga and the Syrian Army, probably the Iraqi army too but they don't seem to really exist no more. I'd likely use bombing to try to contain ISIS forces but communication is key. Sending an American army in would be last resort and thats if the Kurds and Syrians are badly losing. Has to be diplomacy and aid first. Not sure if we could of stopped those supposed beheadings though

So I am kinda confused now.  Most of what you said you would do is what America is doing.

 In terms of Imperial England, no I mean England since the 1600's.  I mean who do you think lazily drew half of the borders in the middle east, and thus fucked that region (France and other European powers helped of course.)

 

One last thing:  What you see on TV is not america.  Fox News is war hungry and stupid, but then again it is Fox News.  You don't judge America based on Fox News, and I won't judge the U.K. based on The Sun ok?



Captain_Tom said:

So I am kinda confused now.  Most of what you said you would do is what America is doing.

 In terms of Imperial England, no I mean England since the 1600's.  I mean who do you think lazily drew half of the borders in the middle east, and thus fucked that region (France and other European powers helped of course.)

 

One last thing:  What you see on TV is not america.  Fox News is war hungry and stupid, but then again it is Fox News.  You don't judge America based on Fox News, and I won't judge the U.K. based on The Sun ok?

I never denied that. England has done many things that are nothing to be proud. Not so much nowadays but we had a bloody history. Every superpower seems to be the same.

Yeah I admit media especially those owned by Rupert Murdoch (he owns the sun and fox) seem to be very sensationilist and exaggerating. Whatever the Sun says is normally far away from the reality. As for Fox News i find them amusing but it's worrying that millions of people believe them.

Also, i don't hate American people just the American government. All governments are awful in my opinion. They get too corrupt 



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the2real4mafol said:
Captain_Tom said:

So I am kinda confused now.  Most of what you said you would do is what America is doing.

 In terms of Imperial England, no I mean England since the 1600's.  I mean who do you think lazily drew half of the borders in the middle east, and thus fucked that region (France and other European powers helped of course.)

 

One last thing:  What you see on TV is not america.  Fox News is war hungry and stupid, but then again it is Fox News.  You don't judge America based on Fox News, and I won't judge the U.K. based on The Sun ok?

I never denied that. England has done many things that are nothing to be proud. Not so much nowadays but we had a bloody history. Every superpower seems to be the same.

Yeah I admit media especially those owned by Rupert Murdoch (he owns the sun and fox) seem to be very sensationilist and exaggerating. Whatever the Sun says is normally far away from the reality. As for Fox News i find them amusing but it's worrying that millions of people believe them.

Also, i don't hate American people just the American government. All governments are awful in my opinion. They get too corrupt 

Totally agree. The Amercan federal government runs on a broken system. What irks me the most is the fact that the Democratic and Republican parties run on the "party-first, people-second" mentality. Rather than actively trying to better the lives of the American people, they're more concerned about their ideological purity.