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Locked: Why isn't Israel heavily sanctioned? (Double Standards!)

Forums - Politics Discussion - Why isn't Israel heavily sanctioned? (Double Standards!)

Does Israel sponsor international terrorism?

Do Israelis celebrate and throw a party when people of the same faith carry out terror attacks against thousands of innocent civilians of all walks of life halfway around the globe?

Does Israel publicly state that their ultimate goal is to push the Palestinians into the sea?

Does the Israeli government spend all of its money / raw materials on weapons and terror network tunnels rather than infrastructure for its people?

Does the Israeli government / military use its own population as human shields and use schools and hospitals to launch attacks and store munitions?

No?

THAT is why Israel isn't heavily sanctioned.  To those of you who think that Israel is conducting a 2nd Holocaust against the Palestinians, a big f*ck you to you.



On 2/24/13, MB1025 said:
You know I was always wondering why no one ever used the dollar sign for $ony, but then I realized they have no money so it would be pointless.

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Zuhyc said:

They say that Russia attacked Ukraine first, bombed Ukrainian civilians, annexed Crimea and even shoot down the Malaysia Airlines plane... Are you kidding me?

1. There was a Coup d'etat in Ukraine. Right wing protestors, backed by the violent neo-nazis of Svoboda party outed the government from Kiev and set a new right wing government where Svoboda (Again, NAZIS, people, learn a little) played an important role. The US, EU and FMI supported the new government because they wanted to harm Russia, and promised the new government millions of Euros in exchange of certain policy reforms (reforms that would lower the work and rights standards and harm sovereignty, which is the reason why the reforms were rejected by the parliament and the government recently resigned). You can Google a little and learn that this is all true (and, in fact, it would be nice to Google a little before you post the absurd things you're posting).

2. Because of this Euromaidan Coup d'etat (which was initially sold as a "struggle for freedom and against corruption", but the truth is that it was a bunch of nationalist, nazis and ultra-orthodox demonstrating against the pro-Russian government), the people of Crimea, Lugansk and Donetsk, regions populated by people of russian etnicity, declared independence from Ukraine. Crimea also organized one referendum in which the option of joining Russia won. IT WAS NOT AN ANNEXATION, it was a voluntary union that went through referendum.

3. The government of Kiev (capital of Ukraine), seeing the country loosing territory, started a war against the new independent terrtories, mainly the Republics of Lugansk and Donetsk. KIEV (not Russia) has been bombing the streets of the cities in these republics causing thousands of civilian victims. Russia has supported the rebels of Donetsk and Lugansk, but Russia HAS NOT started a war.

4. About the Malaysian Airlines plane bombing, IT IS NOT CLEAR what happened. People here is assuming that it was Russia or the rebels who bombed the plane, but here in Europe (lucky we still have plural media not as biased as the US one) lots of newspapers and agencies say that the rebels didn't have the capacity to fire planes at that altitude, and that in fact it was probably Kiev who shoot down the plane. What interest could Russia have in bombing a civil aircraft?? It would totally go against their interest. On the other hand, there is no proof that the Donetsk rebels have such weapons, but if they were the ones bombing the plane, it was probably a terrible mistake in which they mistook a commercial plane for a military one.


1. I truly do believe that the protests in Kiev were majorily backed by civilions who honestly want a better life. And for that better life they're looking to the West, the European Union. And not to Russia, where there is no freedom for the press, Putin will basically rule the country like a dictator untill he is dead, gay people are being beaten up ...
Allthough I won't deny that some extremist groups profitted from the protests.

2. You say people are ignorant, yet you claim there was a referendum in Ukraine? Lol. People were intimidated to vote for the annexation, and who really knows what the true results were? Russia organised everything.

3. Parts of a state can't just form a new state out of thin air. I'm all for partial autonomy if the Eastern regions desire this, but declaring independence and taking up arms is NOT the way to do this. When things have settled a referundum (and a real referendum, not one staged by Russia) can be organised to vote for independence, like in Scotland.

4. I don't have enough info to comment on this point, allthough you do seem to make a valid point.

1. It is OK if you believe that, but beliefs are one thing and facts are other. The Majority of the demonstrators were orthodox of ukranian ethnicity protesting corruption, the pro-russian stand of he government (remember: an elected government, so even if it is pro-russian that is what the majority of the population of the country had choosen) and claiming that that was a protest for god and their fatherland. Then Svoboda party militants, with an important presence in the demonstrations, started rioting and clashing with the police. Once more in case it is not clear: SVOBODA IS A NAZI PARTY. And thay made it to the government after the Coup. So please, don't be naive: Russia (specially today) has a lot of negative things; lack of freedom of press and expression, corruption, persecution of homosexuality, etc. etc. etc. And I, like most of the reasonable people in the world do not support that. But demonizing Russia and lying about Russia (ssaying that they started the war with Ukraine, or that they bombed the Malasyan Airlines plane, which is not true) only serves to justify evil geopolitical positions that just want war and confrontation (beacuse they profite from war and confrontation and because setting the attention on an evil enemy lets them to act with impunity).

2. Yes, I say some people are ignorants, and you pretty much fall into that area when you affirm things that you do not know and that are false. THERE WAS a referendum, but NOT in Ukraine, as you say, but in Crimea. And thay voted independence and annexation to Russia not because they were intimidated, but because the majority of the population in Crimea (as in the east of Ukraine) are ethnic russians. So please, again, do not manipulate or throw random opinions about things that you do not understand.

3. Any part of a State can form a new state whenever they want. A different thing is if that is a legal or, even better, legitimate move. In the case of Ukraine, the rules of legality and legitimacy were broken first when the rightists were succesfull in a coup d'etat against the elected government. After that, the east provinces organized referendums and declared independence when that option won. It is very simple to understand.

4. No one has enough information about it, and that is why clearly pointing at Russia or the Rebels as the responsible for the bombing is plain manipulation. The commision investigating the bombing, integrated by Malaysians, Australians and Neetherlands proofessionals, has not yet issued a declaration about what happended, so we better shut up and wait for the results instead of helping governments with plain propaganda.

___

Just once again: Gaza did not fire rockets against Israel first and then Israel attacked; Israel has been occupying palestinian land since 1948, and even today keeps displacing the original inhabitants of Palestinian towns and builds israeli settlements in the colonized lands. So if they get rockets it is just because they are violating the rights and illegally ocupying the territory of other peoples, who in turn react violently against the occupation.

BTW: Arabs were the majority of the population in the area in 1948, not jews, and jews were not even the original inhabitants of the land; before David and the 12th tribes the people of Canaan and the Phoenicians were living there first.



freedquaker said:
tiffac said:
freedquaker said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Scisca said:

but at least one group tries to get to a positive destination and get civilized. The same can be said about neither Jihad, nor Russians.

Basically this.

I believe Israel ultimately wants peace, but their enemies are worse than the Nazis.


If you are killing 600 babies and under age children,

if 1 out of 2 people you kill is a child

if 4 out of 5 people you kill are civillian

if you are killing 20 times as many people

if you cannot show physical evidence for aan alleged rocket or a house demolished as a result

if you are bombing UN buildings or massacring children on the beach

YOU DONT WANT PEACE, YOU WANT GENOCIDE.

If that's the case why isn't Israel attacking the West Bank as well? Surely, they want to eliminate all Palestinians like Hamas wants to eliminate all Israelis'

You probably don't read the history very well I believe because they did much worse to the West Bank in the past, MUCH WORSE.

But I gotta give it credit to Israel, they are much more civilized than the Esad in Syria or ISIS in Iraq. I don't want to sound anti-Israel or pro-Arab either because the people in middle East are their worst enemies. Crimes in Syria or ISIS's crimes in Iraq are actually much worse. I also hate the hypocracy among the middle eastern folks who raise up their voices to the max when Israel does something (and they are RIGHT about it, Israel commits heinous crimes), but they do not take the same stance against Arabs who commit much worse crimes against their own people.

So this is not a war about Jews versus Arabs. I have tremendous friends from both races. Some of the Jews that I know are among the most honorable people I have ever met. It's about RACISM (of one against another) and DESPOTIC REGIMES regardless of race. In the past, (Some) Arabs did it, recently (Nazi) Germans did it, today (Zionist) Jews do it. There will always be incredible people who speak out in all races (Like Choamsky, Finkelstein etc...)


Oh I love history but my question remains unanswered if Genocide is what Israel wants then why haven't they attacked the West Bank now? Its a simple question.



Mr Puggsly said:
freedquaker said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Basically this.

I believe Israel ultimately wants peace, but their enemies are worse than the Nazis.


If you are killing 600 babies and under age children,

if 1 out of 2 people you kill is a child

if 4 out of 5 people you kill are civillian

if you are killing 20 times as many people

if you cannot show physical evidence for aan alleged rocket or a house demolished as a result

if you are bombing UN buildings or massacring children on the beach

YOU DONT WANT PEACE, YOU WANT GENOCIDE.

When there is war its innocent people that suffer the most. The highest death counts are generally civilians.

Israel wants a cease fire, but Hamas wants all jews dead. Therefore I put the blame of dead civilians on Hamas.


There are always civillian deaths? Is this an excuse? You are reading minds but the results are clear. The civillian deaths on the Palestinian side is about 100 times more. The children deaths are infinitely more. This is not a war, this is not even a massacre, this is pure genocide. The facts will not change however you try to spin it.



Xbox One X (Scorpio) Prospects

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 15-25 % vs PS4 : 75-85%
N. America => XB1 :  35-45% vs PS4 : 55-65%
Global     => XB1 :  24-33% vs PS4 : 67-76%

tiffac said:
freedquaker said:
tiffac said:
freedquaker said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Scisca said:

but at least one group tries to get to a positive destination and get civilized. The same can be said about neither Jihad, nor Russians.

Basically this.

I believe Israel ultimately wants peace, but their enemies are worse than the Nazis.


If you are killing 600 babies and under age children,

if 1 out of 2 people you kill is a child

if 4 out of 5 people you kill are civillian

if you are killing 20 times as many people

if you cannot show physical evidence for aan alleged rocket or a house demolished as a result

if you are bombing UN buildings or massacring children on the beach

YOU DONT WANT PEACE, YOU WANT GENOCIDE.

If that's the case why isn't Israel attacking the West Bank as well? Surely, they want to eliminate all Palestinians like Hamas wants to eliminate all Israelis'

You probably don't read the history very well I believe because they did much worse to the West Bank in the past, MUCH WORSE.

But I gotta give it credit to Israel, they are much more civilized than the Esad in Syria or ISIS in Iraq. I don't want to sound anti-Israel or pro-Arab either because the people in middle East are their worst enemies. Crimes in Syria or ISIS's crimes in Iraq are actually much worse. I also hate the hypocracy among the middle eastern folks who raise up their voices to the max when Israel does something (and they are RIGHT about it, Israel commits heinous crimes), but they do not take the same stance against Arabs who commit much worse crimes against their own people.

So this is not a war about Jews versus Arabs. I have tremendous friends from both races. Some of the Jews that I know are among the most honorable people I have ever met. It's about RACISM (of one against another) and DESPOTIC REGIMES regardless of race. In the past, (Some) Arabs did it, recently (Nazi) Germans did it, today (Zionist) Jews do it. There will always be incredible people who speak out in all races (Like Choamsky, Finkelstein etc...)


Oh I love history but my question remains unanswered if Genocide is what Israel wants then why haven't they attacked the West Bank now? Its a simple question.


THEY DID ATTACK the West Bank MANY MANY MANY times. How old are you? Too young to know all that? Just google "Israeli attacks on West Bank", for God's sake.... If you are making a claim, you should at least quickly check it online... enough politics already. I don't have time to quarrel with people who are not open to the truth out there.



Xbox One X (Scorpio) Prospects

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 15-25 % vs PS4 : 75-85%
N. America => XB1 :  35-45% vs PS4 : 55-65%
Global     => XB1 :  24-33% vs PS4 : 67-76%

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freedquaker said:
tiffac said:
freedquaker said:
tiffac said:
freedquaker said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Scisca said:

but at least one group tries to get to a positive destination and get civilized. The same can be said about neither Jihad, nor Russians.

Basically this.

I believe Israel ultimately wants peace, but their enemies are worse than the Nazis.


If you are killing 600 babies and under age children,

if 1 out of 2 people you kill is a child

if 4 out of 5 people you kill are civillian

if you are killing 20 times as many people

if you cannot show physical evidence for aan alleged rocket or a house demolished as a result

if you are bombing UN buildings or massacring children on the beach

YOU DONT WANT PEACE, YOU WANT GENOCIDE.

If that's the case why isn't Israel attacking the West Bank as well? Surely, they want to eliminate all Palestinians like Hamas wants to eliminate all Israelis'

You probably don't read the history very well I believe because they did much worse to the West Bank in the past, MUCH WORSE.

But I gotta give it credit to Israel, they are much more civilized than the Esad in Syria or ISIS in Iraq. I don't want to sound anti-Israel or pro-Arab either because the people in middle East are their worst enemies. Crimes in Syria or ISIS's crimes in Iraq are actually much worse. I also hate the hypocracy among the middle eastern folks who raise up their voices to the max when Israel does something (and they are RIGHT about it, Israel commits heinous crimes), but they do not take the same stance against Arabs who commit much worse crimes against their own people.

So this is not a war about Jews versus Arabs. I have tremendous friends from both races. Some of the Jews that I know are among the most honorable people I have ever met. It's about RACISM (of one against another) and DESPOTIC REGIMES regardless of race. In the past, (Some) Arabs did it, recently (Nazi) Germans did it, today (Zionist) Jews do it. There will always be incredible people who speak out in all races (Like Choamsky, Finkelstein etc...)


Oh I love history but my question remains unanswered if Genocide is what Israel wants then why haven't they attacked the West Bank now? Its a simple question.


THEY DID ATTACK the West Bank MANY MANY MANY times. How old are you? Too young to know all that? Just google "Israeli attacks on West Bank", for God's sake.... If you are making a claim, you should at least quickly check it online... enough politics already. I don't have time to quarrel with people who are to the truth out there.

Oh I know my question is why not now? I mean they are Genocidal people that wants to eradicate Palestine. So why Gaza only? Why is Palestine still standing or is Israel just one massive failure as a Genocidal states? I mean you guys knows the answer so I asked. Again its a simple question.



They were at WAR and happened to seize land during their victory.



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Not taking sides, just some factual corrections to otherwise good post:

Zarkho said:

2. Because of this Euromaidan Coup d'etat (which was initially sold as a "struggle for freedom and against corruption", but the truth is that it was a bunch of nationalist, nazis and ultra-orthodox demonstrating against the pro-Russian government), the people of Crimea, Lugansk and Donetsk, regions populated by people of russian etnicity, declared independence from Ukraine. Crimea also organized one referendum in which the option of joining Russia won. IT WAS NOT AN ANNEXATION, it was a voluntary union that went through referendum.

I never tired to repeat that civil conflict is politicl in nature, not ethnical. Otherwise, it'd be hard to explain why Zakharchenko (last name ends with -ko, often assosiated with Ukrainian), who participated in antimaidan movement in Kharkov, eventually created pro-Russian "Oplot" battalion, and currently holds the position of DPR's minister of defence, is Russian. While Semen Semenchenko (real name Konstantin Grishin), the resident of Sevastopol, Crimea, the creator of pro-Ukrainian "Donbass" battalion, is Ukrainian.

Long story short, there're two parties of Ukrainians -- those who think that Ukraine in present shape and form stll has future and those who think it's doneskies and they need to do smth about it. Other political positions on gazillion of questions could be conclued from this one.

 

And here's visual representation of percentage of students who take their classes in Ukrainian rather than in Russian for last 20 years. Kinda give perspective on the popular Ukie's slogan "kill the Russian in ya":



 

Zarkho said:

2. The UN in 1948 was composed of less than 1/3 of the world nations. Russia, who was against the creation of the state of Israel, was not present in the voting that approved the establishment of the Jewish state (which they would have vetoed). Therefore, pretending that the 1948 backing of the state of Israel gives them any legitimacy is absurd.

Are you referrring to 181 UN resolution? If so, USSR was there as well as UkrSSR and BelSSR, which have been represented separately at the time, all voted for it. The resolution was about partition of the Palestine, but de facto lead to creation of the state of Israel. In general, Soviet Union was among prime UN members that created Israel along with military help btw, a substantial part of Israeli military officers at the time were Soviet officers of Jewish ethnicity with WW2 experience, add to that arms supply through Czechoslovakia and economic help.

Of course, eventually Soviet Union has changed its stance on Israel, in fact there were tensions following first Israel-Arab conflict.



Wow, I've read so many biased and/or ill-informed posts in this thread that I'm blown away. I'm not gonna comment on the actual topic more than that though.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

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freedquaker said:
Mr Puggsly said:

When there is war its innocent people that suffer the most. The highest death counts are generally civilians.

Israel wants a cease fire, but Hamas wants all jews dead. Therefore I put the blame of dead civilians on Hamas.


There are always civillian deaths? Is this an excuse? You are reading minds but the results are clear. The civillian deaths on the Palestinian side is about 100 times more. The children deaths are infinitely more. This is not a war, this is not even a massacre, this is pure genocide. The facts will not change however you try to spin it.

I'm saying Hamas is more to blame for civilian deaths. They are responsible for the war.

Claims of genocide have no validity given Israel is under attack. Simple as that.



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