By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Trolls drive Anita Sarkeesian out of her house...

Hoodieninja said:

PersonalYisus said

 Ellie, Lightning, Elizabeth, Samus, Trip (Enslaved). I don't know many because I regularly just play shooters and strategy games, but they don't even exist for Anita. Guys, this girl is only doing press and money with this, is like a John Edwards for (no, not even "Radical" but) ridiculous feminists.

 

http://youtu.be/l9Ju-1I1DTU This guy, while being also a bit biased, points a lot of things to "distress" her.


Honestly, she'll just find some way to Criticize those characters too. Ellie is a companion therefore just a Backround Decoration. Ellie needs saving from Joel, she's a Damsel in Distress.

Lightning has some clothes she changes into that is Scandelous. TYPICAL FEMALE TROPES.

Elizabeth is a companion and is just backround decoration.

in fact, yes I realize it isn't Anita making these claims, but I'm sure she'll still find a way similar to these people claiming that Ellie is a Damsel and/or Backround Decoration.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/126648-Naughty-Dog-Responds-to-The-Last-of-Us-Sexism-Claims


Who is cherry picking now? There are several games that have been praised by her but to you everything is negative.



Around the Network
Hoodieninja said:

1. She is, Did I ever say she shouldn't? There's a whole difference between doing so and Misrepresenting Facts.

2. How does it make Women Less signifigant when they're used as Important to portray something that is wrong?

3. Femi-Nazi is a term used waaay before Limbaugh. So how am I acting like a Nazi? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=feminazi

4. No there is nothing wrong with that. She just misrepresent facts, and she's completely Biased. She's creating controversy out of something that doesn't matter.

She's as Relevant as Rush Limbaugh. That's how she makes money and it's sad. Her soul purpose is to make a Rise out of people that is a Subject that is as much of a problem as Violence in movies and Video Games.

Did I at all say she doesn't have the right to be an Idiot? Man that'll be amazing Rush Limbaugh taken off the air because clearly he's an idiot that misrepresents data and evidence and spins it just like Sarkeesian does.

The question would be is how would people suggest that games companies tackle such a story while still making the story in such a way. i.e sex slavery is happening, how would they cover such a story differently... would love to know.

I mean Watch_dogs seems to go into just about as much depth on the subject of women for sale as Taken (movie) does. 



Making an indie game : Dead of Day!

PersonalYisus said:

Her biggest problem is that she knows where she is wrong, but she is a "marketed" protester, she is not a real feminist complaining about problems in the society, she is appealing to an specific sector I like to call "Tumblr's feminists" and doing exactly what she needs to do to get them in the pocket.

If most of the gamers (and no, we are not 50/50, those figures include mobile games wich is really misleading) were womans, games will be drastically different, but they aren't, most games are targeted to a young male audience.

This is the problem with this kind of feminists, they don't UNDERSTAND what is behind the "discrimination" they just point with a fire blade everything doesn't fulfills their ideas on how society should be. Games have "objectified" women because they aren't targeted to women, as the same way barbie promotes the idea of looking for a "perfect blue prince" in men, but barbie doesn't give as much clicks and views as videogames.

Anita often takes 2 seconds as much to say things like "I know not everything is like that, but 99.9999% is".

There are many strong female characters in videogames:

Ellie, Lightning, Elizabeth, Samus, Trip (Enslaved). I don't know many because I regularly just play shooters and strategy games, but they don't even exist for Anita. Guys, this girl is only doing press and money with this, is like a John Edwards for (no, not even "Radical" but) ridiculous feminists.

 

http://youtu.be/l9Ju-1I1DTU This guy, while being also a bit biased, points a lot of things to "distress" her.


So it is okay to objectify women because the games are targeted to men? Do you not see how completely ridiculous that statement is? Barbies problems are also well documented. Just because you don't click on them doesn't mean that the topic hasn't been addressed.

And yes, the fact that 99.9999% of things are one way is relevant. 

I tried watching thunderfoot's videos before. Serious facepalm stuff.



Yeah, this will TOTALLY help us engage in dialogue and understand each other's points of views to make a better community for everyone.

I definitely find her videos way overreaching in her "analysis", but come on, trolls....



Madword said:

The question would be is how would people suggest that games companies tackle such a story while still making the story in such a way. i.e sex slavery is happening, how would they cover such a story differently... would love to know.

I mean Watch_dogs seems to go into just about as much depth on the subject of women for sale as Taken (movie) does. 


You can cover it from the perspective of the female who has been enslaved (Several movies actually have done this). That would be a much more effective way to tackle the subject if you were really trying to tackle it. In watch dogs its a side plot, and in taken it is just an excuse for Liam Neeson to f dudes up.

There isn't anything inherently wrong with doing it from the male perspective and having the male be the hero, the issue that some feminist have is how often the trope is overused. In isolation, I don't think there is anything wrong with what watch dogs did. 



Around the Network
wilco said:
Madword said:

The question would be is how would people suggest that games companies tackle such a story while still making the story in such a way. i.e sex slavery is happening, how would they cover such a story differently... would love to know.

I mean Watch_dogs seems to go into just about as much depth on the subject of women for sale as Taken (movie) does. 


You can cover it from the perspective of the female who has been enslaved (Several movies actually have done this). That would be a much more effective way to tackle the subject if you were really trying to tackle it. In watch dogs its a side plot, and in taken it is just an excuse for Liam Neeson to f dudes up.

There isn't anything inherently wrong with doing it from the male perspective and having the male be the hero, the issue that some feminist have is how often the trope is overused. In isolation, I don't think there is anything wrong with what watch dogs did. 

But that's my point, there isnt anything inherently wrong with doing it. Sure perhaps people dont think its written well enough, but as the main character is a man and this is a subplot, there is nothing wrong with that...the whole game isnt about that one particular issue (I dont believe cause i havent played more than 1 hour of WD yet)...but yet it's the thing that is being focussed on.

The reason why most games have the male as the hero is two fold, firstly most people who buy AAA games are male, secondly female character leads dont on the whole sell as well. Now if that is the case, do we expect companies to invest $50m+ dollars on a game that is more inclusive for a small market and on a product which will sell less. They just wont. Of course they can do more to make games seem more interesting and better written, but that is a different argument...

On Anita..she is a woman that has an opinion, I dont necessarily agree, I do agree gaming still hasnt grown up or is able to necessarily write good stories, but I dont agree there is anything wrong with gaming. It's all down to a matter of taste in the end, and one persons opinion should not be in any way used as *this is the only right opinion*. Unfortunately for me, there is a bit to much positive descrimination right now, certainly in some elements of the press seem to be pushing with an agenda. It feels like a battle for control of what and how games get made, and on the terms of the gaming press, which is very scary indeed.

PS - I do agree that threats to someone's life for having an opinion is a total disgrace and should be stopped.



Making an indie game : Dead of Day!

Madword said:
wilco said:
Madword said:

The question would be is how would people suggest that games companies tackle such a story while still making the story in such a way. i.e sex slavery is happening, how would they cover such a story differently... would love to know.

I mean Watch_dogs seems to go into just about as much depth on the subject of women for sale as Taken (movie) does. 


You can cover it from the perspective of the female who has been enslaved (Several movies actually have done this). That would be a much more effective way to tackle the subject if you were really trying to tackle it. In watch dogs its a side plot, and in taken it is just an excuse for Liam Neeson to f dudes up.

There isn't anything inherently wrong with doing it from the male perspective and having the male be the hero, the issue that some feminist have is how often the trope is overused. In isolation, I don't think there is anything wrong with what watch dogs did. 

But that's my point, there isnt anything inherently wrong with doing it. Sure perhaps people dont think its written well enough, but as the main character is a man and this is a subplot, there is nothing wrong with that...the whole game isnt about that one particular issue (I dont believe cause i havent played more than 1 hour of WD yet)...but yet it's the thing that is being focussed on.

The reason why most games have the male as the hero is two fold, firstly most people who buy AAA games are male, secondly female character leads dont on the whole sell as well. Now if that is the case, do we expect companies to invest $50m+ dollars on a game that is more inclusive for a small market and on a product which will sell less. They just wont. Of course they can do more to make games seem more interesting and better written, but that is a different argument...

On Anita..she is a woman that has an opinion, I dont necessarily agree, I do agree gaming still hasnt grown up or is able to necessarily write good stories, but I dont agree there is anything wrong with gaming. It's all down to a matter of taste in the end, and one persons opinion should not be in any way used as *this is the only right opinion*. Unfortunately for me, there is a bit to much positive descrimination right now, certainly in some elements of the press seem to be pushing with an agenda. It feels like a battle for control of what and how games get made, and on the terms of the gaming press, which is very scary indeed.

PS - I do agree that threats to someone's life for having an opinion is a total disgrace and should be stopped.


I agree. I don't think anyone is saying that games like watch dogs shouldn't exist or they simply should stop doing that kind of story. I think Anita is just observing patterns and commenting on the possible causes and effects of those patterns. She is commenting on that specific section because it supports her thesis. I know some people think that is a bad thing but it is usually necessary to have a narrow focus for things like this. In any debate you are going to need to stick to the points that support your argument or run the risk of weakening your argument. There is more to watch dogs than that one aspect but that one aspect was relevant to her argument and she wasn't off the mark.

And yes there is a lot of "positive discrimination". I also find the over eagerness of some modern progressivism to be over the top. I think some of that has led to the equally over the top backlash. For me Sarkeesian videos aren't really some kind of call to arms for people to stop playing or making those games (maybe that is her intention but it is not how I digest them). There are things that I never realized how common they were until I watched her videos, I find them interesting and there is nothing wrong with being more aware.  I also think that there are assumptions being made by developers on what their male target audience wants to see. For example, the strip club in gta. The strip club on its own is fine but then they added a creepy mini game where you grope a stripper. I can understand why a feminist seeing this would think that there is something wrong with the gaming industry. Its just a pointless addition that adds nothing to the actual game other than providing feminists with more fuel. Its things like that that puzzle me about some of the choices made by the game industry.



wilco said:
Hoodieninja said:

1. She is, Did I ever say she shouldn't? There's a whole difference between doing so and Misrepresenting Facts.

2. How does it make Woman Less signifigant when something is Important to portray something that is wrong?

3. Femi-Nazi is a term used waaay before Limbaugh. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=feminazi

4. No there is nothing wrong with that. She just misrepresent facts, and she's completely Biased. She's creating controversy out of something that doesn't matter.

She's as Relevant as Rush Limbaugh. That's how she makes money and it's sad. Her soul purpose is to make a Rise out of people that is a Subject that is as much of a problem as Violence in movies and Video Games.

 

1. You still haven't presented compelling evidence that she misrepresented facts. And by saying that men don't get all "uppity" you are basically suggesting that there is something inherently wrong with expressing opinions on these issues.

2. As you have basically said in your post these women are a means to an end. They are important not as characters but as plot devices. If something is used only as a means to an end it is less significant by definition. Now lets be clear because this seems to be a crucial point of contention for people like you, that example from watch dogs does not mean that ALL women are less significant, it means that those particulary sex slaves in that particular game are less significant. Lets also be clear that I don't think there is anything wrong with using them as a plot device. I'm simply arguing that they are in fact nothing more than background decoration. Sarkeesian used this example as one example that is part of a bigger trend. Sarkeesian most likely has a problem with the larger trend rather than each and every specific example. The argument of course is that the pervasiveness of these kinds of images in pop culture has a deliterious affect on women who consume this media. I can't really comment on that but it would make sense. I can't fault Sarkeesian for wanting to see women represented in a way that is not just the same tropes trotted out time and again. Hopefully these videos will encourage developers to think outside the box. It doesn't mean that games like watch dogs can't have storylines like that anymore, that is not what this should be about.

3. It doesn't matter where the word orignates from. Its incredibly stupid.

4. She's biased? What is her Bias? The fact that her videos are "controversial" really says something about the gaming community. Part of the reason that her videos on books and movies aren't as popular is because there is no controversy. Only in video games is pointing out obvious sexism as sexism deemd "controversial". There is absolutely nothing controversial about her videos. Her videos are not done in a sensationalist manner, she isn't spewing vitriolic venom at men, she isn't going on angry rants, she isn't even condemning the video game industry the way other groups have in the past... and yet she is "controversial". That, is the thing I find most shocking about all this.

And please stop comparing this to violence in video games. Sarkeesian isn't asking that video games be banned. She isn't saying that all video games need to cater to her personal feminist philosophy. She is just pointing some stuff out. You don't need to take a defensive stance. Noone is trying to take your video games away. Also, the really bad violence in video games is relegated to the M rated stuff, but sexism in video games is available to all ages.

1. I have never done so, I never said it was wrong. You're misrepresenting what I said. Just like she does. I also never suggested such things.

2. Again, those Woman portrayed in the game are not less signifigant, she is an Important part of the plot device.

3. No, not really.

4. Nothing Controversial about her lol. That is like saying Rush Limbaugh is just pointing out that the sexim argument is stupid. No Controversy right there.
No Controversy when Michael Moore is just pointing out the truth about Guns in America.
She's as much of a Sensationalist as these commentators.

Did I say Video Games banned? You're really jumping the gun here.
Sexism? lol Mario is Sexist, I remember hearing that argument and how it was debunked so many times. The fact that you believe that Sexist is apparently available in all ages proves that her Sexist Crusade is working.



wilco said:
Madword said:
wilco said:
Madword said:

The question would be is how would people suggest that games companies tackle such a story while still making the story in such a way. i.e sex slavery is happening, how would they cover such a story differently... would love to know.

I mean Watch_dogs seems to go into just about as much depth on the subject of women for sale as Taken (movie) does. 


You can cover it from the perspective of the female who has been enslaved (Several movies actually have done this). That would be a much more effective way to tackle the subject if you were really trying to tackle it. In watch dogs its a side plot, and in taken it is just an excuse for Liam Neeson to f dudes up.

There isn't anything inherently wrong with doing it from the male perspective and having the male be the hero, the issue that some feminist have is how often the trope is overused. In isolation, I don't think there is anything wrong with what watch dogs did. 

But that's my point, there isnt anything inherently wrong with doing it. Sure perhaps people dont think its written well enough, but as the main character is a man and this is a subplot, there is nothing wrong with that...the whole game isnt about that one particular issue (I dont believe cause i havent played more than 1 hour of WD yet)...but yet it's the thing that is being focussed on.

The reason why most games have the male as the hero is two fold, firstly most people who buy AAA games are male, secondly female character leads dont on the whole sell as well. Now if that is the case, do we expect companies to invest $50m+ dollars on a game that is more inclusive for a small market and on a product which will sell less. They just wont. Of course they can do more to make games seem more interesting and better written, but that is a different argument...

On Anita..she is a woman that has an opinion, I dont necessarily agree, I do agree gaming still hasnt grown up or is able to necessarily write good stories, but I dont agree there is anything wrong with gaming. It's all down to a matter of taste in the end, and one persons opinion should not be in any way used as *this is the only right opinion*. Unfortunately for me, there is a bit to much positive descrimination right now, certainly in some elements of the press seem to be pushing with an agenda. It feels like a battle for control of what and how games get made, and on the terms of the gaming press, which is very scary indeed.

PS - I do agree that threats to someone's life for having an opinion is a total disgrace and should be stopped.


I agree. I don't think anyone is saying that games like watch dogs shouldn't exist or they simply should stop doing that kind of story. I think Anita is just observing patterns and commenting on the possible causes and effects of those patterns. She is commenting on that specific section because it supports her thesis. I know some people think that is a bad thing but it is usually necessary to have a narrow focus for things like this. In any debate you are going to need to stick to the points that support your argument or run the risk of weakening your argument. There is more to watch dogs than that one aspect but that one aspect was relevant to her argument and she wasn't off the mark.

And yes there is a lot of "positive discrimination". I also find the over eagerness of some modern progressivism to be over the top. I think some of that has led to the equally over the top backlash. For me Sarkeesian videos aren't really some kind of call to arms for people to stop playing or making those games (maybe that is her intention but it is not how I digest them). There are things that I never realized how common they were until I watched her videos, I find them interesting and there is nothing wrong with being more aware.  I also think that there are assumptions being made by developers on what their male target audience wants to see. For example, the strip club in gta. The strip club on its own is fine but then they added a creepy mini game where you grope a stripper. I can understand why a feminist seeing this would think that there is something wrong with the gaming industry. Its just a pointless addition that adds nothing to the actual game other than providing feminists with more fuel. Its things like that that puzzle me about some of the choices made by the game industry.


No sorry again, she misrepresents Data, yes all she is technically doing is Shaming the video game industry to prove her Sexist Agenda.

Sarkeesian videos aren't really some call to arms? LOL, right. 



wilco said:
Rafux said:

You are being fooled people, Anita is a con artist just do a little research shes a scammer a very good one and theres even some evidence that a guy is behind the whole scam.

Remember people if certain group doesn't like Anita is either cause her videos are dumb and moronic or cause she is a scammer, "they hate me cause I'm a woman" is what she wants you to believe


What exactly is the "scam". She requested money from kickstarter and has produced results. What part of that is a scam?

Oh come on do some research, not even that just look at the date on her videos, she didn't release one in 6 months!

I support RLM on Patreon and they pump up 5 videos a month with some high production value for an independent web series/show and before that they never asked a dime for 4 years.