I agree you have to be very careful in naming trophies... and the Bros before hoes (sp?) was ill advised. When making a trophy set, you try to make the name of a trophy familiar to the players. For example if I was doing an alphabet game and you got a trophy for getting an answer right on the letter A, you might make it "The A Team"... most designers I've met try to get it to link up in that way (where the trophy is related to a well known term). I do think it was ill advised, but obviously BBH is an american term that is used quite a lot in certain groups/movies... so i can see why they might have thought it was a good idea. To be honest, it should have been picked up by someone saying..hmm you know what this isnt really appropriate. I don't think they were necessarily being sexist...but people will always get offended by it.

There are things that might be considered OTT, but again it does all come down to personal taste. As I said my wife thought the lap dancing stuff in GTA was really funny, while I am sure there are people who would get offended by it. She wouldnt get offended by BBH trophy either.. But where do you stop or start... So it is a difficult line to know when to draw that line... can you make a game about certain subjects or is it taboo... can we talk about subjects or can we not.

Yeah totally agree with the AC and FC4 games... totally cry wolf. That outrage at Far Cry 4 was really stupid...and some gaming sites complaining about the lack of female characters in AC unity and how disgraceful it was - was poor show considering how many female characters AC has had over the years.

The problem i have with it all, is they are all using the word "inclusive" that games should try to have as many groups playing it as possible. That sounds like a fine aim, but its when games are just being made and it doesnt include one of the inclusive groups, then it is suddenly evil or unacceptable. There are many games being made, does every game have to have a male/female/white/black/asian/disabled/powerful... type character. Does every game have to have a well written plot, well formed character, non backgrounds .....etc etc.  No it doesn't, and its unfortunate that the witch hunt is going that route right now. AC games being a fine example of that as you pointed out. One AC game doesnt have a playable female character and BOOM... its suddenly a disgrace, gaming sites hassling game companies with Why not!!!

I actually feel disappointed about such things like...that if i made a game about rescuing a princess, it would get lambasted because it's sexist and shows the female character as weak, or that it is using well known "trope" (hate that word)... when all it is - is a fun game about rescuing a computer character that happens to be female. Hopefully gaming snaps out of it because it's a little depressing that the agenda is being pushed down peoples throats.

Anyway really interesting conversation, appreciate it :)

Been gone for awhile but I'm back. I just can't let this backwards logic stand.

1. A big deal out of nothing because she made a couple youtube videos stating opinions? The only people I see making a big deal out of nothing are the ones reacting to her. I seriously don't get the overreaction to what is essential just someone stating opinions. So again to my point which you said was misrepresented, you think it is wrong for someone to simply state opinions, seeing as how that is all she has done, my previous point still stands. Don't comeback with that "misrepresenting data" crap either, they are opinions, you can agree or disagree, but stop acting like you have irrefutable evidence that "debunks" her arguments because you don't.

2. I'm glad you bring up Alba in Sin City.... Alba is an important character in sin city, she plays a pivotol role in the movie. She has a storyline.... BUT, there are also other dancers at Alba's strip club. Most of those dancers are background decoration... see how that works. Same thing for watch dogs. So let's review.

Alba: Important CHARACTER with her own storyline.

Other Dancers in Club: Background Decoration, most likely labeled as stripper #x in credits.

So unless each and every npc slave worker in Watch Dogs has a Jessica Alba in Sin City sized role than the Sarkeesians point still stands. There are sexualized women in watch dogs who serve as background decoration. I suggest you watch Sarkeesians video again, you are either not understanding, not trying to understand or incapable of understanding the point. You can argue the validity of her point... but to say she is "lying" well, that just isn't true.

3. I wouldn't ignore them. I'd be fascinated to see them. They'd basically be doing the impossible. Look, you guys don't seem to get how this works. You can't "debunk" mario is sexist anymore than I could "debunk" you if you said Anita Sarkeesian was sexist. I could disagree with you and explain my position, but it's not something you "debunk". I never said Mario was sexist either, but I'd still be curious to see how that "debunking" works. I've actually watched several attempted "debunkings" from mouth breathers like thunderfoot and his ilk, those videos are full of every fallacy you could possibly think of and most don't even bother addressing the arguments in any serious manner. I'd love to see some that actually tackle the arguments head on in an intelligent and respectful manner, if you have links please provide them. I'd be interested.

Maybe if you actually showed examples of her misrepresenting "data" instead of just repeating that line a million times over, I would see the light. Give me something concrete. If the watch dogs example was all you had then I'm sorry to say... you've got nothing.

I agree you have to be very careful in naming trophies... and the Bros before hoes (sp?) was ill advised.

So it is pretty apparent from this post that you just don't get it. Youre turning this into an argument over who faces more sexism in video games - Men or Women. That is some serious third grade logic right there. You also seem to think issues of sexism are black and white positive vs negative. I'm not sure if you are even operating on the level of someone who can process these kinds of discussions. 

And I see you're still claiming she misrepresents data without offering up any evidence to support those claims.

No you don't.

Kratos has sex with Women and treats them as a tool, there's even Nudity and a Minigame for Kratos having sex.
And Adam Sessler gets all up and arms about Bro before Hoe's only oversensitive people got mad.
it wasn't ill Advised.

Of course you have to be careful in naming trophies, in fact there are general guidelines by the console manufacturers themselves that relate to trophy unlocks/naming etc etc.

I'm not a fan of Adam Sessler after his "I havent been given a PS4" outrage... but naming a trophy that could raise an internet storm (which is obvious from the naming of it)... is Ill Advised.  

it's an M rated game with a Trophy called Bro's Before Hoes. It's a joke. And people took it too seriously.

The game is M rated, and I have no problem with any of the sex scenes/mini games. But as I said it was ill advised to name the trophy in that way. Hoe is not considered a very nice term...it would be like calling a trophy Sluts in the UK or something. Which could be considered unfair/downright rude way of labelling women who are having sex with Kratos (it's suggestive - women who have sex is a hoe). 

The other issue is that the game might be M rated, but trophies are viewable by anyone. So when designing trophies you are trying to make them funny/appropriate but not make something inappropriate.

So yes it was ill advised in my opinion. If you had bothered to read any of the other threads you will have noticed that I dont have a problem with sex/naked themes/strippers or the trophy name as such or anything like that in games (just that I think its ill advised). So not sure why you feel that I have put your nose out of joint because I think what they did was a mistake.

Actually Kratos was having sex with a Prostitute it makes sense in that Context.
It wasn't ill ad-vised, people are just taking this too seriously.

Kids have heard words like Hoe before, this is just like the father who got mad at Portal 2 because Glados making fun of Orphans.
And seriously so what? It's not like Kids constantly look at other peoples Trophy. It's just a small off chance that they even see or care about something like that.