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Forums - Gaming Discussion - A major part of the digital/physical debate that people forget

Puppyroach on 25 August 2014

I look forward to the day we can resell our digital games on PS+ or XBLG :). It would be great to set up your own "shop" online where people can buy your old games, with Sony or MS taking a cut from the sale. I know this might not EVER happen, but one can Dream :).

OT: Yes, principally they are the same (and I am all digital now) but there is a larger sense of ownership in a physical Product.



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Avro1958 on 25 August 2014

I think only a small segment are hung up on ownership, for the majority it's just they they prefer physical copies for various reasons (trading, selling, collections and not waiting on your game to download)



VanceIX on 25 August 2014
Shadow1980 said:

False. False. A hundred times false. Here's the ENTIRE text of the First-sale doctrine, with key parts bolded to point out that you own your game discs/cartridges (as well as books, music, & movies):

§ 109 . Limitations on exclusive rights: Effect of transfer of particular copy or phonorecord42

(a) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106(3), the owner of a particular copy or phonorecord lawfully made under this title, or any person authorized by such owner, is entitled, without the authority of the copyright owner, to sell or otherwise dispose of the possession of that copy or phonorecord. Notwithstanding the preceding sentence, copies or phonorecords of works subject to restored copyright under section 104A that are manufactured before the date of restoration of copyright or, with respect to reliance parties, before publication or service of notice under section 104A(e), may be sold or otherwise disposed of without the authorization of the owner of the restored copyright for purposes of direct or indirect commercial advantage only during the 12-month period beginning on— 

(1) the date of the publication in the Federal Register of the notice of intent filed with the Copyright Office under section 104A(d)(2)(A), or

(2) the date of the receipt of actual notice served under section 104A(d)(2)(B), whichever occurs first.

(b)(1)(A) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a), unless authorized by the owners of copyright in the sound recording or the owner of copyright in a computer program (including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program), and in the case of a sound recording in the musical works embodied therein, neither the owner of a particular phonorecord nor any person in possession of a particular copy of a computer program (including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program), may, for the purposes of direct or indirect commercial advantage, dispose of, or authorize the disposal of, the possession of that phonorecord or computer program (including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program) by rental, lease, or lending, or by any other act or practice in the nature of rental, lease, or lending. Nothing in the preceding sentence shall apply to the rental, lease, or lending of a phonorecord for nonprofit purposes by a nonprofit library or nonprofit educational institution. The transfer of possession of a lawfully made copy of a computer program by a nonprofit educational institution to another nonprofit educational institution or to faculty, staff, and students does not constitute rental, lease, or lending for direct or indirect commercial purposes under this subsection.

(B) This subsection does not apply to— 

(i) a computer program which is embodied in a machine or product and which cannot be copied during the ordinary operation or use of the machine or product; or

(ii) a computer program embodied in or used in conjunction with a limited purpose computer that is designed for playing video games and may be designed for other purposes.

(C) Nothing in this subsection affects any provision of chapter 9 of this title.

(2)(A) Nothing in this subsection shall apply to the lending of a computer program for nonprofit purposes by a nonprofit library, if each copy of a computer program which is lent by such library has affixed to the packaging containing the program a warning of copyright in accordance with requirements that the Register of Copyrights shall prescribe by regulation.

(B) Not later than three years after the date of the enactment of the Computer Software Rental Amendments Act of 1990, and at such times thereafter as the Register of Copyrights considers appropriate, the Register of Copyrights, after consultation with representatives of copyright owners and librarians, shall submit to the Congress a report stating whether this paragraph has achieved its intended purpose of maintaining the integrity of the copyright system while providing nonprofit libraries the capability to fulfill their function. Such report shall advise the Congress as to any information or recommendations that the Register of Copyrights considers necessary to carry out the purposes of this subsection.

(3) Nothing in this subsection shall affect any provision of the antitrust laws. For purposes of the preceding sentence, “antitrust laws” has the meaning given that term in the first section of the Clayton Act and includes section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission Act to the extent that section relates to unfair methods of competition.

(4) Any person who distributes a phonorecord or a copy of a computer program (including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program) in violation of paragraph (1) is an infringer of copyright under section 501 of this title and is subject to the remedies set forth in sections 502, 503, 504, and 505. Such violation shall not be a criminal offense under section 506 or cause such person to be subject to the criminal penalties set forth in section 2319 of title 18.

(с) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106(5), the owner of a particular copy lawfully made under this title, or any person authorized by such owner, is entitled, without the authority of the copyright owner, to display that copy publicly, either directly or by the projection of no more than one image at a time, to viewers present at the place where the copy is located.

(d) The privileges prescribed by subsections (a) and (с) do not, unless authorized by the copyright owner, extend to any person who has acquired possession of the copy or phonorecord from the copyright owner, by rental, lease, loan, or otherwise, without acquiring ownership of it.

(e) Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106(4) and 106(5), in the case of an electronic audiovisual game intended for use in coin-operated equipment, the owner of a particular copy of such a game lawfully made under this title, is entitled, without the authority of the copyright owner of the game, to publicly perform or display that game in coin-operated equipment, except that this subsection shall not apply to any work of authorship embodied in the audiovisual game if the copyright owner of the electronic audiovisual game is not also the copyright owner of the work of authorship.

There you go. Black and white, clear as crystal. According to United States federal law, when you purchase a physical copy, that copy IS. YOUR. PROPERTY!!! This is reiterated multiple times with the very unambiguous term "owner of a particular copy." Wikipedia has an article on the First-sale doctrine written in layman's terms for people who have difficult with legal-ese.

To summarize, §109(a) of Title 17 of US Code establishes that the purchasers of lawfully made copies are the owner of said copy; in other words, my CDs, DVDs, books, and games are my property. As owner of said copy, they have the right to lend, trade, gift, sell, or otherwise dispose of said copy. This law is what makes the second hand market — either transactions between individuals or between an individual and a business such as GameStop or 2nd & Charles — possible.

§109(b) establishes an exemption that disallows rentals or leasings, either for indirect or direct commercial advantage, of certain audio recordings or computer programs without the permission of the copyright holder, though §109(b)(B)(i) exempts console games from this exemption, and non-profit libraries and non-profit educational institutions may lending for non-profit purposes.

§109(с) allows owners of copies to display copies publicly at, say, his home or a friend's house to viewers present as the place the copy is located.

I honestly don't know how much clearer I can make this, because repeating is several times yesterday apparently didn't register with you. The law is quite clear: we own our copies. There is no legal precedent nor any law that allows for copyright owners to take away your ability to use, or sell, or lend, or gift our copies. There's just not, so stop saying otherwise.

 

Now, the problem with digital copies is that in current American jurisprudence, digital copies are not considered the property of the purchaser and thus are not subject to the first-sale rule. The fixed, tangible nature of a physical copy is what in U.S. law makes them subject to ownership and first-sale rights. In other words, physical copies are considered "sold, not licensed" while digital copies are "licensed, not sold." Is that all clear enough for you?

Once again, read any EULA before saying that the game isn't licensed to you, and that you own it.



                                                                                                               You're Gonna Carry That Weight.

Xbox One - PS4 - Wii U - PC

VanceIX on 25 August 2014
Ka-pi96 said:
Hmm, I'm pretty sure that it is much easier to return a physical game though...

Definitely. Physical games are much easier to handle in general, especially when it comes to selling and trading the media.

I was just pointing out that a consumer never owns the game. A quick glance at a EULA will confirm it. 

Personally, I do both, and see the benefits of either. Physical is great for limited edition games and such, while digital is great for digital sales and PC games. 



                                                                                                               You're Gonna Carry That Weight.

Xbox One - PS4 - Wii U - PC

platformmaster918 on 25 August 2014
Burek said:
platformmaster918 said:
Burek said:
platformmaster918 said:
I buy physical because I re-sell most of my games. Can't do that with Digital. Also I'm very sentimental about cases and of course those beautiful steelbooks *drools*

I only buy digital games for my PS4, and have no problem reselling them once I'm done. Not only that, but I usually get more than when reselling physical discs, while also saving on shipping costs and time.

Digital is far superior to discs, and see no reason to ever buy a disc again, as I am notv a collector at all.

how do you resell them?

I purchase each game on a separate account, then sell the account...

oh...well I'm not doing that for various reasons including friends lists and trophies




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LiquorandGunFun on 25 August 2014

*pulls out mod chip*

what OP?

I will be damned if i cant play what i paid for.



 

burninmylight on 25 August 2014
Zones said:
zeldazero said:
To me the biggest problem with digital is the fact that it is almost inevitable that eventually your digital purchase will no longer be available to you with no kind of reimbursement. Can anyone tell me with complete certainty that if I buy a game that it will be available for me to re-download for the rest of my life as long as I own the console I bought it on. Basically, in 20 years, do you think I will still have the ability to download a digital game I bought on the PS3 when the PS8 comes out? I highly doubt it.

Has your iTunes music library from a decade ago disappeared? Well same exact thing will be true for digital games purchases.

Of course, in the instance of a company completely failing in their gaming sector and basically going out of business without selling the division beforehand, you may lose all your digital purchases. Likewise, for both Sony and MS, if your account is banned for some reason, they will disallow you from redownloading your own games, which is a completely archiac move on their part, and unless more people call them out on this, they will most like not change that rule.

 

That's not the case with Steam though; your games are yours forever to redownload regardless of anything that may happen to your account.

Exactly. So long as you download the game and it doesn't require the need to phone home or connect the Internet in any manner just to play, you have nothing to worry about.

Also, I bought Donky Kong Country from the Wii VC before Nintendo had to take the DKC games off of the service. Even though someone who never purchased the game through VC before does not have the ability to get the game now, I can delete and redownload the game as many times as I want, because I already purchased the license to the game.



LudicrousSpeed on 25 August 2014

Legally it is the same, but with physical you can at least resell/trade/lend the license (aka disc). With digital, you cannot. Also, if the license holder is having online issues, you're out of luck with digital sometimes. There are lots of people talking about not being able to access their PSN content yesterday, even to play offline.

So there is a natural feeling of "owning" the physical copy more, even if technically you don't really own the game.



stpaulmagic on 25 August 2014

I only get digital games on my 3ds, got zelda Albw and ocarina of time downloaded.



NeoRatt on 25 August 2014

I really don't get console gamers.

Steam on PC is digital, Music has been digital for years, and Video is going digital with things like Netflix.

The licensing models of these are really no different than console games. But, console gamers are so stuck up on renting and trading in their games, that they can't reconcile a digital world.

I can understand people who don't have high speed internet. But, for people in urban areas and high speed internet digital is the best way to go.