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Forums - Gaming Discussion - A major part of the digital/physical debate that people forget

alabtrosMyster said:

Still, I would like to be able to "tie" physical games to my PS4 temporarily and play them without swaping the discs, then when I want to sell one I can just un-tie the license from my machine (either on the console on from the PSN web site) if the DRM server is down, then the console asks for the physical disc to be present (this way if you go on vacation and want to bring your console, you have to bring the discs for your physical games, but at least you can do it).... obvioulsly if MS offered a system similar to what I describe there, there would have been no problem, it gives you flexibility and control of your media as well as giving you the benefits of the digital games for all titles, if you opt-in!

The problem is not impossible to solve, and a solution that pleases everyone would bave been possible too, neither console manufacturer has done it yet

Great idea, and won't be one thats too hard to implement. But that would cause another problem, this would mean that every console would "require" some sort of daily online authentication. Say you pair a physical game to your console (so its basically a digital game), then decide to sell that game. The only way to make it possible for the new owners console to know if that game is tied to another console is to go online, crosscheck the games ID with whats on their database and then restrict the game from being played if its still tied to another console. At the end of the day, too much hassle, unless you are ready to do exactly what MS was trying to do with DRM. 

Just so happens to be though that MS took it a little too far and also showed exactly how DRM like that could be abused by the platform holder.

I say they should keep physical games as they are now, but just give us more options with the digital stuff.



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VanceIX said:

A lot of people say that the best reason to go physical is that you actually own the game. That's not true. You own the disc itself, but the game is licensed to you, just like digital games. Under the law, there is almost no difference in ownership.

That being said, no one is coming to take away your rights to play your discs. At the same time, however, that generally doesn't happen with digital games either unless you seriously fuck up.

I'm not saying that everyone should up and quit physical and buy digital only, just saying that the concept of "ownership" is really not that different between the two, as far as the law is concerned. 


I agree 100%.  I have a steady job and have no reason to sell my games back.  I have $60 at disposal all the time so I have gone all digital this gen because I can play my game at midnight (with PS4 preload) and not have to camp out to play it at 3am (disc download).  And I don't have to switch disc.

 

However if you are a gamer on a budget, I hate it for you because i forsee and all digital future.



zeldazero said:
To me the biggest problem with digital is the fact that it is almost inevitable that eventually your digital purchase will no longer be available to you with no kind of reimbursement. Can anyone tell me with complete certainty that if I buy a game that it will be available for me to re-download for the rest of my life as long as I own the console I bought it on. Basically, in 20 years, do you think I will still have the ability to download a digital game I bought on the PS3 when the PS8 comes out? I highly doubt it.

Has your iTunes music library from a decade ago disappeared? Well same exact thing will be true for digital games purchases.

Of course, in the instance of a company completely failing in their gaming sector and basically going out of business without selling the division beforehand, you may lose all your digital purchases. Likewise, for both Sony and MS, if your account is banned for some reason, they will disallow you from redownloading your own games, which is a completely archiac move on their part, and unless more people call them out on this, they will most like not change that rule.

 

That's not the case with Steam though; your games are yours forever to redownload regardless of anything that may happen to your account.



Burek said:
platformmaster918 said:
I buy physical because I re-sell most of my games. Can't do that with Digital. Also I'm very sentimental about cases and of course those beautiful steelbooks *drools*

I only buy digital games for my PS4, and have no problem reselling them once I'm done. Not only that, but I usually get more than when reselling physical discs, while also saving on shipping costs and time.

Digital is far superior to discs, and see no reason to ever buy a disc again, as I am notv a collector at all.

how do you resell them?




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VanceIX said:
gigantor21 said:
Ah, but that enforcement angle is what makes all the difference.

That licensing agreement has been around for as long as I've been playing video games. They had "not for resale" warnings on the box for Sonic on the Genesis when I was little. But we still had plenty of flexibility, as publishers aren't going to millions of people's homes to try and enforce such rules for every game that comes out.

Digital makes it far easier to enact all the licensing restrictions that the industry so badly want to enforce. That's why MS wanted to push their restrictive DRM on used game sales so much in the first place. Streaming services like PSNow, which "#4thegamers" Sony wants to make the standard for content delivery, would be even worse. Physical grants me as a consumer far more ownership over the game I paid for, regardless of what the licensing agreement says on paper.

But under the law, it really doesn't. 

It grants you more flexibility over transferring the license, but you still have no ownership over the game.

Also, they don't go around to millions of people taking away access to digital games either. I can play my digital titles, whether connected to the internet or not, whenever I want without having to switch discs. Unless I really screw up, I will always have those games linked to my account, ready to download and play whenever I please.

They don't have to go door to door to do that kind of enforcement with digital content to begin with. It's simply a matter of deciding when and how you can access it and play it, which can be done entirely on the platform holder's end. And your ownership of those games is by no means permanent, as they're not going to keep the networks up forever to allow you to redownload content that you delete, or that is lost to hardware failure. Physical copy mitigates both of those issues.



Have some time to kill? Read my shitty games blog. http://www.pixlbit.com/blogs/586/gigantor21

:D

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Zones said:
gigantor21 said:
Digital makes it far easier to enact all the licensing restrictions that the industry so badly want to enforce. That's why MS wanted to push their restrictive DRM on used game sales so much in the first place. Streaming services like PSNow, which "#4thegamers" Sony wants to make the standard for content delivery, would be even worse. Physical grants me as a consumer far more ownership over the game I paid for, regardless of what the licensing agreement says on paper.

PlayStation Now is not much different from music services like Spotify, Beats, and Sony's own Music Unlimited service. The same thing is happening with movies and Netflix.

 

The underlying repeating theme is that most people are reluctant to change at first, then very slowly they adapt to newer forms of media consumptions without ever admitting being unreasonably stubborn at first place. I am somewhat certain a lot of people who shit on PSNow at this time would be more than glad to pay a one time subscription fee per year to play games only three months old without even needing to purchase a gaming system to play them. Then of course all this unnecessary 'ownership' speech will go out of the window and most would pretend they had welcomed this future with open arms.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions there.

I wasn't anywhere near as apprehensive about, say, online multiplayer, or the move from cartridges to discs, or the introduction of anlog sticks for 3-d games. In all of those cases, the benefits far outweighed the potential downsides. Streaming services don't sound anywhere near as beneficial; the potential for lag and network downtime locking me out even in single player titles doesn't sound very enticing at any price, assuming that the pricing and offerings for such a service would be good in the first place. Even with digital downloads, I'm far more price conscious than I would be for phyiscal copy because of the inability to resell games I don't like and recoup the investment.

Some changes are just better than others.



Have some time to kill? Read my shitty games blog. http://www.pixlbit.com/blogs/586/gigantor21

:D

gigantor21 said:
Zones said:
gigantor21 said:
Digital makes it far easier to enact all the licensing restrictions that the industry so badly want to enforce. That's why MS wanted to push their restrictive DRM on used game sales so much in the first place. Streaming services like PSNow, which "#4thegamers" Sony wants to make the standard for content delivery, would be even worse. Physical grants me as a consumer far more ownership over the game I paid for, regardless of what the licensing agreement says on paper.

PlayStation Now is not much different from music services like Spotify, Beats, and Sony's own Music Unlimited service. The same thing is happening with movies and Netflix.

 

The underlying repeating theme is that most people are reluctant to change at first, then very slowly they adapt to newer forms of media consumptions without ever admitting being unreasonably stubborn at first place. I am somewhat certain a lot of people who shit on PSNow at this time would be more than glad to pay a one time subscription fee per year to play games only three months old without even needing to purchase a gaming system to play them. Then of course all this unnecessary 'ownership' speech will go out of the window and most would pretend they had welcomed this future with open arms.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions there.

I wasn't anywhere near as apprehensive about, say, online multiplayer, or the move from cartridges to discs, or the introduction of anlog sticks for 3-d games. In all of those cases, the benefits far outweighed the potential downsides. Streaming services don't sound anywhere near as beneficial; the potential for lag and network downtime locking me out even in single player titles doesn't sound very enticing at any price, assuming that the pricing and offerings for such a service would be good in the first place. Even with digital downloads, I'm far more price conscious than I would be for phyiscal copy because of the inability to resell games I don't like and recoup the investment.

Some changes are just better than others.

Your last point is precisely why game companies are trying to push for digital and streaming services. To put it simply, the whole reselling and renting of games make the current business environment very unsustainable for the game developers. You can try and bring up analogies to make your point why this may not be the case, but gaming business is unique because there are not many revenue generating sources like there are with movies, music, etc.

Reality is, something like PSNow can potentially be way better than the current service in a few years, and it could act as an added revenue generator for game makers, but the initial negativity of such service by consumers is perplexing and it shows again that gamers, in contrast what most would say, are reluctant to anything they are not familiar with.

 

Yes, both PSNow and internet infrastructure, plus the pricings all need to sorted out first, but even then, there will be a backlash because the current status quo are more familiar with most consumers. But just like how for $5-10 bucks per month you can get unlimited music and it's a way better value than anything before it, $10-20 for all released games is fantastic deal, regardless of simplistic issues such as lack of physical ownership.



if we can trade digital games, im going all digital.



Zones said:
gigantor21 said:
Zones said:
gigantor21 said:
Digital makes it far easier to enact all the licensing restrictions that the industry so badly want to enforce. That's why MS wanted to push their restrictive DRM on used game sales so much in the first place. Streaming services like PSNow, which "#4thegamers" Sony wants to make the standard for content delivery, would be even worse. Physical grants me as a consumer far more ownership over the game I paid for, regardless of what the licensing agreement says on paper.

PlayStation Now is not much different from music services like Spotify, Beats, and Sony's own Music Unlimited service. The same thing is happening with movies and Netflix.

 

The underlying repeating theme is that most people are reluctant to change at first, then very slowly they adapt to newer forms of media consumptions without ever admitting being unreasonably stubborn at first place. I am somewhat certain a lot of people who shit on PSNow at this time would be more than glad to pay a one time subscription fee per year to play games only three months old without even needing to purchase a gaming system to play them. Then of course all this unnecessary 'ownership' speech will go out of the window and most would pretend they had welcomed this future with open arms.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions there.

I wasn't anywhere near as apprehensive about, say, online multiplayer, or the move from cartridges to discs, or the introduction of anlog sticks for 3-d games. In all of those cases, the benefits far outweighed the potential downsides. Streaming services don't sound anywhere near as beneficial; the potential for lag and network downtime locking me out even in single player titles doesn't sound very enticing at any price, assuming that the pricing and offerings for such a service would be good in the first place. Even with digital downloads, I'm far more price conscious than I would be for phyiscal copy because of the inability to resell games I don't like and recoup the investment.

Some changes are just better than others.

Your last point is precisely why game companies are trying to push for digital and streaming services. To put it simply, the whole reselling and renting of games make the current business environment very unsustainable for the game developers. You can try and bring up analogies to make your point why this may not be the case, but gaming business is unique because there are not many revenue generating sources like there are with movies, music, etc.

Reality is, something like PSNow can potentially be way better than the current service in a few years, and it could act as an added revenue generator for game makers, but the initial negativity of such service by consumers is perplexing and it shows again that gamers, in contrast what most would say, are reluctant to anything they are not familiar with.

 

Yes, both PSNow and internet infrastructure, plus the pricings all need to sorted out first, but even then, there will be a backlash because the current status quo are more familiar with most consumers. But just like how for $5-10 bucks per month you can get unlimited music and it's a way better value than anything before it, $10-20 for all released games is fantastic deal, regardless of simplistic issues such as lack of physical ownership.

Considering all the problems that the industry is having making money, I have a hard time believing that shifting entirely to a Netflix-style service will help matters much. The movie industry has ticket sales, DVDs and Blurays to supplement streaming income; services like Spotify hasn't stopped the music industry from selling CDs or putting albums on iTunes. Streaming makes far more sense as a supplemental service alongside physical and digital copy than as a means of replacing consoles outright.

But frankly, I'm under no obligation to support industry practices because they make more money for the companies in question. That has nothing to do with whatever issues their business tactics force me to deal with as an end user. I don't own stock in these companies or work for them.



Have some time to kill? Read my shitty games blog. http://www.pixlbit.com/blogs/586/gigantor21

:D

platformmaster918 said:
Burek said:
platformmaster918 said:
I buy physical because I re-sell most of my games. Can't do that with Digital. Also I'm very sentimental about cases and of course those beautiful steelbooks *drools*

I only buy digital games for my PS4, and have no problem reselling them once I'm done. Not only that, but I usually get more than when reselling physical discs, while also saving on shipping costs and time.

Digital is far superior to discs, and see no reason to ever buy a disc again, as I am notv a collector at all.

how do you resell them?

I purchase each game on a separate account, then sell the account...