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Forums - Gaming Discussion - A major part of the digital/physical debate that people forget

VanceIX said:

A lot of people say that the best reason to go physical is that you actually own the game. That's not true. You own the disc itself, but the game is licensed to you, just like digital games. Under the law, there is almost no difference in ownership.

That being said, no one is coming to take away your rights to play your discs. At the same time, however, that generally doesn't happen with digital games either unless you seriously fuck up.

I'm not saying that everyone should up and quit physical and buy digital only, just saying that the concept of "ownership" is really not that different between the two, as far as the law is concerned.

The difference in concept is the same as the difference in concept between owning a house and owning a trademark. They're both forms of ownership, but with different details. It's a lot harder to repossess a house than it is to repossess a trademark.

While the license to the physical game resides with the disc, the license to the digital game resides with the account. The company can't cancel a physical disc, but they can cancel an account.



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The Fury said:
VanceIX said:

Yes, that is true. Like I said though, you own the disc. The license is connected to that, but in no ways do you actually own the game. It is easier to lend/trade physical games, but digital games have their own advantage, by being accessible all at once on a console and being tied to an account and thus unbreakable by physical means.

In terms of ownership though (the topic of this thread), no one owns any of the games they buy. It is liscenced, period. One format has some advantages of trading/lending while the other does in convinence, but that is a different story. 

Yes but that is what people don't like. They own the licence and physical disc it is attached to. They can sell it, give it to people, whatever they want. If they want to take the disc and do a ritual burning of it, they can. Digital? Nope, it's on your $400 console, at the same cost at the moment as well. To me, a physical disc is far more convenient than a digital copy.

That's a matter of convinence then, not a matter of ownership. This topic is soley about the legal ownership of the game itself, not the convinence of sharing/selling games. Sharing/selling the disc =/= ownership of the game, which is the point I was trying to make.



                                                                                                               You're Gonna Carry That Weight.

Xbox One - PS4 - Wii U - PC

Aielyn said:
VanceIX said:

A lot of people say that the best reason to go physical is that you actually own the game. That's not true. You own the disc itself, but the game is licensed to you, just like digital games. Under the law, there is almost no difference in ownership.

That being said, no one is coming to take away your rights to play your discs. At the same time, however, that generally doesn't happen with digital games either unless you seriously fuck up.

I'm not saying that everyone should up and quit physical and buy digital only, just saying that the concept of "ownership" is really not that different between the two, as far as the law is concerned.

The difference in concept is the same as the difference in concept between owning a house and owning a trademark. They're both forms of ownership, but with different details. It's a lot harder to repossess a house than it is to repossess a trademark.

While the license to the physical game resides with the disc, the license to the digital game resides with the account. The company can't cancel a physical disc, but they can cancel an account.

They can cancel your access to the game though, legally it is well within their right. They don't, however, just like how usually your account won't get completely banned unless you do something illegal or grossly against the ToS.



                                                                                                               You're Gonna Carry That Weight.

Xbox One - PS4 - Wii U - PC

VanceIX said:
They can cancel your access to the game though, legally it is well within their right. They don't, however, just like how usually your account won't get completely banned unless you do something illegal or grossly against the ToS.

They can only cancel your access to a physical game if you break the law regarding it (and then they still need to go through legal channels to remove your license). On the other hand, accounts can go down by mistake, they can be taken down at the company's whim if they feel you've broken the ToS, or they could go bankrupt and the servers could go down (this one applies in the case where the game itself calls home).

What's more, if they cancel your access to a physical game, you can still sell the physical disc to somebody else, who can then play it. If they cancel your account, that's the end of it. No more game. And no form of financial restitution whatsoever.



People want to be able to play games even if the online servers are down/kaput. Biggest concern with digital is that they might require online based activation or keep alive type stuff. Even if they don't right now, they could add such a requirement.

While we all know the disk version of the game works without any online check-in, even there they could add some kind of online check-in requirement like MS was planning to do with XBO until all the gamer backlash. As long as gamers stay vigilent, they can keep both the retail and digital spaces user friendly to the way gamers legally buy and consume games.

PS - Even though I buy physical where I have option over digital except rare cases, I like that digital exists because it allows for many innovative awesome indie games to exist which wouldn't in a purely retail driven business.



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i am digital only so far this gen, but what you are saying though technically correct, isn't entirely true.

key difference is in change of ownership. by law nothing stops you from selling your physical games or buying used physical games.

this is practically impossible with digital games. being that with digital while you own the license to the game, you lack the means to transfer that license to anyone you want. Now if we had a way to sell or transfer our digital licenses at any price we wanted.. then yeah, there really would be no difference owning the two.

A simple fic for this would be for sony/ms/nintendo to have a fixed license transfer fee, say $10 so anyone can transfer ownership of their digital games. So whatever you add to that $10 goes into your account. eg. you sell a game you own for $20, they take $10 and you get credited $10.



In Brazil digital is not a good option, internet here is too slow in 95-98% of the country, only major capitols get the good stuff.
Not even PSNow works in my area...



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

VanceIX said:

A lot of people say that the best reason to go physical is that you actually own the game. That's not true. You own the disc itself, but the game is licensed to you, just like digital games. Under the law, there is almost no difference in ownership.

That being said, no one is coming to take away your rights to play your discs. At the same time, however, that generally doesn't happen with digital games either unless you seriously fuck up.

I'm not saying that everyone should up and quit physical and buy digital only, just saying that the concept of "ownership" is really not that different between the two, as far as the law is concerned. 

It is not a major part of the debate, because the debate is principally around resale / lending / swapping and portability. The fact of owning a plastic disc a case and, if you're lucky an insert or game manual, and a licence rather than all of thosebthings plus owning an actual copy of the game is merely a technical legal distinction that has no bearing on what people do or can do with their licence.

We also don't own the movies we buy on DVD/vhs /blue ray, or the music we buy on CD, or the books we buy. In all cases we have know rights over that material except that which has been granted by the rights holder. But you don't ever hear people talking about owning a licence to read a book or watch a video. So in the end you're just talking semantics not practical realities.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

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Aielyn said:
VanceIX said:
They can cancel your access to the game though, legally it is well within their right. They don't, however, just like how usually your account won't get completely banned unless you do something illegal or grossly against the ToS.

They can only cancel your access to a physical game if you break the law regarding it (and then they still need to go through legal channels to remove your license). On the other hand, accounts can go down by mistake, they can be taken down at the company's whim if they feel you've broken the ToS, or they could go bankrupt and the servers could go down (this one applies in the case where the game itself calls home).

What's more, if they cancel your access to a physical game, you can still sell the physical disc to somebody else, who can then play it. If they cancel your account, that's the end of it. No more game. And no form of financial restitution whatsoever.

Yeah, no. Read your EULA. They can pretty much cancel your rights to the game whenever they please.



                                                                                                               You're Gonna Carry That Weight.

Xbox One - PS4 - Wii U - PC

binary solo said:
VanceIX said:

A lot of people say that the best reason to go physical is that you actually own the game. That's not true. You own the disc itself, but the game is licensed to you, just like digital games. Under the law, there is almost no difference in ownership.

That being said, no one is coming to take away your rights to play your discs. At the same time, however, that generally doesn't happen with digital games either unless you seriously fuck up.

I'm not saying that everyone should up and quit physical and buy digital only, just saying that the concept of "ownership" is really not that different between the two, as far as the law is concerned. 

It is not a major part of the debate, because the debate is principally around resale / lending / swapping and portability. The fact of owning a plastic disc a case and, if you're lucky an insert or game manual, and a licence rather than all of thosebthings plus owning an actual copy of the game is merely a technical legal distinction that has no bearing on what people do or can do with their licence.

We also don't own the movies we buy on DVD/vhs /blue ray, or the music we buy on CD, or the books we buy. In all cases we have know rights over that material except that which has been granted by the rights holder. But you don't ever hear people talking about owning a licence to read a book or watch a video. So in the end you're just talking semantics not practical realities.

But semantics is exactly what I'm discussing. Practical reality is a different matter altogether. In practical reality, people buy and trade physical games, and always have access to their digital games. In terms of pure semantics though, there is no legal ownership for physical games. In pure semantics, a company can take away your right to play the physical game just as easily as a digital. My point is, legal ownership is not a favorable point for phyysical games. You can make the case for convinence, which is a subjective point for both, but legal ownership is clear cut in this case.



                                                                                                               You're Gonna Carry That Weight.

Xbox One - PS4 - Wii U - PC