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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft admits to dodging $29B in taxes. Yes, billion with a B.

Baalzamon said:
overman1 said:
lol
can't actually believe people in this thread are actually supporting this practices....
Then they wonder why the economy got so fucked up in the first place....

So here is one to really get you going. Why are corporations taxed in the first place?

Do you know the amount of tax cut these fuckers get? 

The amount they take out of the country?

the profits they make from outsourcing jobs to less priviledged countries? 

Do you know that the average investor's cut NEVER changes regardless of what the company performs?

What the hell do you think happened to GM in 2008? 

Who had to bail them out? Too big to fail? that ever rings a bell?

Bain Capital who recieves a tax cut of over 30% in 2011? Where they hell do you think they ship their money too?

Do you honestly think Big Business in the America right now gives a flying f!@# about the average citizen?

the goverment is definitely not perfect but, Jesus Christ, dont think all these CEO arent think about twisting every last dime off us...



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Viper1 said:

A.  Actually, it does get used.  Indirectly.  They can use it for collateral.  This reduces the cost of borrowing and/or opens new lines of credit.  And offshore accounts doesn't mean it is being spent in the country the money was earned in.  I doubt that they had $93 in revenue from the Cayman Islands or Switzerland.  And it's probably drawing a nice interst too.

B. Again, they aren't keeping and or spending the money in the country it was earned in.  It's in a bank, drawing interest.

C. So if they bring money back into the US...no taxes on it?

A. To a degree it could be used for collateral, but they would still have to pay tax on it if they brought it back and had to actually use it as collateral. It doesn't have to mean it is spent in the country it was earned. The taxes were already paid to the country it was earned, there would just be additional taxes, above and beyond what was already paid, if it was brought back to the United States

B. Again, it doesn't have to stay in that country. They already paid that country their taxes. But they would certainly be stupid to bring it back to the US, and pay additional taxes, if they can instead just spend it elsewhere and not be liable for those additional taxes

C. It has been something lobbied for years. There is literally over $1 trillion overseas that companies will NOT bring back to the US, because the US refuses to allow them to bring it back without issuing additional taxes (above and beyond the taxes they already paid the country in which it was earned). I personally think it would be a huge boost to the economy (and thus bring more tax revenue to the government even though it was not collected on the initial amount).



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

The title of the OP's thread is click bait. To say Microsoft is "dodging" is an opinionated wording, and also insinuate that this is illegal. This is why US lawmakers want to change the laws, but currently this practice is not illegal. Microsoft says the money was made elsewhere, so that money was invested elsewhere. Until new legislation, this is legal and not "dodging".

Please state just the facts and let the readers make their own opinions.




For those unsure why this is news: Every citizen, whether a physical or a legal entity (person or company) is liable to pay taxes in the country he resides in.
Microsoft is a US resident, therefore all of their earnings are supposed to he taxed in the US (I will not get into specific state taxes).

When I look at it, I don't care at all, as I am not American. But all of you US citizens should be upset, because that is the amount of money MS has hidden from you and your schools, military, hospitals, handicapped, farmers, manufacturers etc etc.

And you shouldn't defend it jyst because you enjoy your XBox or Windows Phone, this is much beyond console wars...



overman1 said:

Do you know the amount of tax cut these fuckers get? 

The amount they take out of the country?

the profits they make from outsourcing jobs to less priviledged countries? 

Do you know that the average investor's cut NEVER changes regardless of what the company performs?

What the hell do you think happened to GM in 2008? 

Who had to bail them out? Too big to fail? that ever rings a bell?

Bain Capital who recieves a tax cut of over 30% in 2011? Where they hell do you think they ship their money too?

Do you honestly think Big Business in the America right now gives a flying f!@# about the average citizen?

the goverment is definitely not perfect but, Jesus Christ, dont think all these CEO arent think about twisting every last dime off us...

I don't see a single valid reason in there for why corporations should be taxed. The only slightly justified one is the bailout, but the federal government actually MADE money on that, so that kinda makes it a moot point.

Isn't the justification of a tax based on the idea that you have the opportunity to vote? Because I don't care how much money corporations throw at a political agenda, they still can't actually vote.

That put aside, what do you think would happen if corporations weren't taxed? I'll give you a hint, their net income would be higher. And when a corporation has higher net income, investors in the corporation make more money. When these investors make more money, they then have to pay taxes on that money (and I do believe capital gains should be taxed at the same rate as regular income assuming no corporate taxes).

Getting rid of corporate taxes does not give the government any less money...at all.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

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Burek said:
Microsoft is a US resident

No...no they aren't. Until they can vote in an election, they aren't a US resident at all.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Also, anybody who thinks a corporation has a duty beyond making money must live in a serious fantasy world. And in the economy we live in, that duty to make money can be achieved by what many perceive to be bad methods. But the reality is, until people actually stop buying things from that corporation, they are going to continue using these same methods, because they are the most profitable methods.

If people truly cared that jobs stayed in the US, and that corporations didn't have other bad practices, stop buying from these corporations, and make it so it is no longer the most profitable method. Your problem will be solved really quick, and the corporation WILL transform to what you want them to because that new corporation will make the most money once again.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Baalzamon said:
Burek said:
Microsoft is a US resident

No...no they aren't. Until they can vote in an election, they aren't a US resident at all.

You comment a lot, but you really don't know much, do you?

If I were you, I'd read up on things you write about, this way you're just embarassing yourself on a daily basis.



Baalzamon said:
Burek said:
Microsoft is a US resident

No...no they aren't. Until they can vote in an election, they aren't a US resident at all.

Corporations are people, hadn't you heard?  Supreme Court said so.  Their corporate HQ is in Washington.  That's a US resident.

Of course, by your logic, children under the age of 18, and convicted felons aren't US residents either.



This isnt just sales made in other countries. A little explanation when profit is made in another country the tax on that profit is deducted from what the tax is in the US. So if profit is $100 and company pays $10 in tax to another country and the tax would have been $20 in the US then the company pays $10 more in tax when the money is repatriated.

OK so now what a lot of companies do. I dont know if MS does this, but I believe Apple does. A company makes a product in very low wage country like China. Then has a holding company in say the Cayman Islands or Ireland that has very low tax rate. The company sells the product made in China to the holding Company in the Cayman Islands for large profit. Then the company in the Cayman Islands sells the product to the main company in the US to sell to the US consumer. They sell the product at nearly the retail price. So now little profit on the actual sale to the consumer. The profit goes to the holding company in the Cayman Islands which has little tax.

Example: Product made in China for $10 for the holding company. The holding company sells to US company for $95. US company sells to consumer for $100. So the holding company makes $85 in profit. US company makes $5 in profit. Tax in holding company country is basically nothing. Tax in US is on $5 profit. Money sits offshore. Companies lobby to get repatriation holiday to get money back in US. Think last time the tax % was 10% rather then top rate of 35%.



Its libraries that sell systems not a single game.