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Forums - Politics Discussion - What do you think really happened in Ferguson?

Angelus said:
TheBlackNaruto said:
Angelus said:
Well you don't see too many honour students with scholarships doing PCP and charging at cops two weeks before college starts


But IMO the more important question is why the fuck every time something happens to a black kid the whole fucking community of black people in that area feel they have the right to go start looting and causing mass chaos and shit. Seeing women filling their strollers with Hennessey from the liquor store with the baby on her arm and crap like that.......just pathetic.


Heck you actually see a LOT of them doing all of that. They just finished high school and are headed to college! They smoke some pot and even drink and party that is actually pretty normal.....


There's a difference between pot and drinking and PCP. A big one


True there is indeed a big difference but Brown only had pot in his sytem.....



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

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Euphoria14 said:
Angelus said:
Well you don't see too many honour students with scholarships doing PCP and charging at cops two weeks before college starts


But IMO the more important question is why the fuck every time something happens to a black kid the whole fucking community of black people in that area feel they have the right to go start looting and causing mass chaos and shit. Seeing women filling their strollers with Hennessey from the liquor store with the baby on her arm and crap like that.......just pathetic.


Black people are killed everyday in places like Chicago. 

 

It it only makes headlines and is a big deal countrywide when a white man does the shooting. It's also the only time you see Jackson, Sharpton and/or Obama having something to say.

I don't like it.

 

 

 

As for the looting, it is likely because those people don't work, so they steal shit. Why else would they all be standing around at 11am on a work day?

 They are dumb. They bitch about no jobs, so they go and destroy places that provide jobs in the area.

This.

This will probably turn into another Zimmerman but the difference is a white cop did the shooting.



haxxiy said:
Stupid American laws as usual. None of that racism bullshit. It wouldn't be different if it was an albino or whatever.

Murica is basically the only so-called "democratic" country where a cop can shoot the top of your head off if you don't keep your hands to the steering wheel or something idiotic like that.


No, race is a big factor here.

The community is 65% percent black. The police force is 95% percent white. The civic leadership is similarly stacked disproportionately with white people.

86% of traffic stops in Ferguson and 92% of arrests target black people, even though the police are more likely to find contraband if they stop white people.

A police officer's most powerful weapon is a gun or an MRAP, it's authority. Respected authority will resolve many situations before they can escalate to violence. When police are seen as a symbol of institutional persecution, rather than safety and protection, as is frequently the case with disaffected minorities around the world, they need to resort to violence more often.

A lot of people have remarked that Ferguson police decked out in full armor and assualt gear resemble an occupying force. I suspect both the police and the citizens of Ferguson have subconsciously felt like they are an occupying force for some time.

Whether Brown's shooting was a desperate struggle or an execution, it was symptomatic of that institutional racism.



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

Some guy with a gun shot a guy without a gun, multiple times... the guy with a gun got away with it because he wears an uniform.



Angelus said:
TheBlackNaruto said:
Angelus said:
Well you don't see too many honour students with scholarships doing PCP and charging at cops two weeks before college starts


But IMO the more important question is why the fuck every time something happens to a black kid the whole fucking community of black people in that area feel they have the right to go start looting and causing mass chaos and shit. Seeing women filling their strollers with Hennessey from the liquor store with the baby on her arm and crap like that.......just pathetic.


Heck you actually see a LOT of them doing all of that. They just finished high school and are headed to college! They smoke some pot and even drink and party that is actually pretty normal.....


There's a difference between pot and drinking and PCP. A big one

Even if he was charging full force, the guy posed no serious threat, nothing that warrant shooting him.... I mean, he was not even armed!

Do you really want police officers on the streets that are this edgy, so edgy that they kill someone on any sign of misbehaviour?



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alabtrosMyster said:
Angelus said:
TheBlackNaruto said:
Angelus said:
Well you don't see too many honour students with scholarships doing PCP and charging at cops two weeks before college starts


But IMO the more important question is why the fuck every time something happens to a black kid the whole fucking community of black people in that area feel they have the right to go start looting and causing mass chaos and shit. Seeing women filling their strollers with Hennessey from the liquor store with the baby on her arm and crap like that.......just pathetic.


Heck you actually see a LOT of them doing all of that. They just finished high school and are headed to college! They smoke some pot and even drink and party that is actually pretty normal.....


There's a difference between pot and drinking and PCP. A big one

Even if he was charging full force, the guy posed no serious threat, nothing that warrant shooting him.... I mean, he was not even armed!

Do you really want police officers on the streets that are this edgy, so edgy that they kill someone on any sign of misbehaviour?

I think you misunderstand my point. I think it was an absolutely terrible shooting. I was just commenting on the officer's bogus accusation that the kid was on PCP (which he only said because it's the only possible drug that would justify the 6 shots, cus a guy charging at you on any other drug would have gone down after one or two shots at most).  



MegaManX said:

Firstly, no he did rob the store, it was a $50 box of cigars, but that value of the item does not matter.  The video confirms it was him, he clearly is not joking around with the owner by pushing him back and he is clearly intimidating him before walking out of the store.  I don't know why you are bothering to dispute a video of the incident, we know it happened so let's move on.  The cop not knowing about the incident doesn't matter because the friend admitted they were illegally walking down the street, so the cop had cause to address MB.  

And like you say, he assaulted the cop, probably grabbed the gun, injured the officers eye socket so we know he was assaulted by MB.  Even if he ran, the cop has to give chase, you do realize that right?  He has just committed several felonies at that point so the cop has even more cause to arrest MB, and as you say if MB confronted the officer than he was resisting arrest.  You are making the case for me here.  He assaulted the cop, ran, cop gave chase, we don't know exactly what happened but as you say if he rushed the cop, what do you think is going to happened, if MB grabs the gun what do you think will happen to the cop?  So like you say he fires to subdue him, the first 4 shots hit him in the right arm.  Then like I say, how does a big guy with adrenaline flowing react to 4 shots in a few seconds, does that instantly subdue him or does he not feel the bullets and keeps charging or does feel it and slumps over into another bullet that wasn't aimed for his head?

And really come on, you think he should have let the suspect go and got back in his car, and done what?  Wait for a cop, he pursued the suspect like every other cop every other time who is physically able to does, you say he should have tazed him, do you know if that is standard gear for cops in Ferguson, do you know how they work and how much time he had when they caught up to each other to use it if he had it and keep himself alive.  You would think the sight of the gun and the cop telling you to freeze and get down would be smart enough to listen, but I guess for you, a cop has to always use non lethal means even if the circumstances may not give the cop enough time to react?

Again like I said maybe he did rob the store(well did) BUT that had NOTHING do do with the shooting at all none the less. And I never said he did not have reason to address Brown because they were indeed illegally walking down the street. Also the cop being injured I still have my questions about because he left the scene of the crime before hand and that info somehow was not giving until almost a week later but all that was said is that there was an "altercation" in the cops car and the part about Brown rushing him was already released. So if the story really went as the cop said why did he leave the scence before hand? Why not wait for backup and the paramedics to arrive and get checked right then and there?   So again the question remains how did the altercation begin? How did Brown end up  inside the police car through a window to where he was "supposedly" reaching for the cops gun in the first place? And yes when shots are fired the cop is supposed to call in for back up IMMEDIATELY. The cop KNEW he shot Brown so he knew that Brown was already injured. And yes in Ferguson the police have tazers and pepper spray standard I live in the area. The "pursuit" didn't even leave the street they were on not even a block or two.

Whenever shots are fired a cop is supposed to ALWAYS call for back up. Yet this officer did not and he was not shot at he was the one that did the shooting. And yes if the office feared for his life the way he said then he would not have began pursuit in the first place he would again called for back up or called for back up THEN began pursuit.. And yeah for me agetting down and  freezing would be natural and smart. And Brown was indeed facing the officer when shot but that does not mean he was rushing him. If the officer had time to pursue a wounded suspect, time to tell him to freeze and all fo that then yes he had time to do something outside of shooting him.

But this is all just speculation on both our parts. I do not want you to think I am just defending on side because the cop could very well be telling the truth about what happened or maybe some facts are incoorect on both sides. But what remains for me is that the actions of the cop led to the loss of a life and the cop could have done thing sdifferently. Can't chng ewhat has alredy happened but it seems things were done the incorrect way in this matter and the loss of a life is never a good thing.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

TheBlackNaruto said:
MegaManX said:
 

Firstly, no he did rob the store, it was a $50 box of cigars, but that value of the item does not matter.  The video confirms it was him, he clearly is not joking around with the owner by pushing him back and he is clearly intimidating him before walking out of the store.  I don't know why you are bothering to dispute a video of the incident, we know it happened so let's move on.  The cop not knowing about the incident doesn't matter because the friend admitted they were illegally walking down the street, so the cop had cause to address MB.  

And like you say, he assaulted the cop, probably grabbed the gun, injured the officers eye socket so we know he was assaulted by MB.  Even if he ran, the cop has to give chase, you do realize that right?  He has just committed several felonies at that point so the cop has even more cause to arrest MB, and as you say if MB confronted the officer than he was resisting arrest.  You are making the case for me here.  He assaulted the cop, ran, cop gave chase, we don't know exactly what happened but as you say if he rushed the cop, what do you think is going to happened, if MB grabs the gun what do you think will happen to the cop?  So like you say he fires to subdue him, the first 4 shots hit him in the right arm.  Then like I say, how does a big guy with adrenaline flowing react to 4 shots in a few seconds, does that instantly subdue him or does he not feel the bullets and keeps charging or does feel it and slumps over into another bullet that wasn't aimed for his head?

And really come on, you think he should have let the suspect go and got back in his car, and done what?  Wait for a cop, he pursued the suspect like every other cop every other time who is physically able to does, you say he should have tazed him, do you know if that is standard gear for cops in Ferguson, do you know how they work and how much time he had when they caught up to each other to use it if he had it and keep himself alive.  You would think the sight of the gun and the cop telling you to freeze and get down would be smart enough to listen, but I guess for you, a cop has to always use non lethal means even if the circumstances may not give the cop enough time to react?

Again like I said maybe he did rob the store(well did) BUT that had NOTHING do do with the shooting at all none the less. And I never said he did not have reason to address Brown because they were indeed illegally walking down the street. Also the cop being injured I still have my questions about because he left the scene of the crime before hand and that info somehow was not giving until almost a week later but all that was said is that there was an "altercation" in the cops car and the part about Brown rushing him was already released. So if the story really went as the cop said why did he leave the scence before hand? Why not wait for backup and the paramedics to arrive and get checked right then and there?   So again the question remains how did the altercation begin? How did Brown end up  inside the police car through a window to where he was "supposedly" reaching for the cops gun in the first place? And yes when shots are fired the cop is supposed to call in for back up IMMEDIATELY. The cop KNEW he shot Brown so he knew that Brown was already injured. And yes in Ferguson the police have tazers and pepper spray standard I live in the area. The "pursuit" didn't even leave the street they were on not even a block or two.

Whenever shots are fired a cop is supposed to ALWAYS call for back up. Yet this officer did not and he was not shot at he was the one that did the shooting. And yes if the office feared for his life the way he said then he would not have began pursuit in the first place he would again called for back up or called for back up THEN began pursuit.. And yeah for me agetting down and  freezing would be natural and smart. And Brown was indeed facing the officer when shot but that does not mean he was rushing him. If the officer had time to pursue a wounded suspect, time to tell him to freeze and all fo that then yes he had time to do something outside of shooting him.

But this is all just speculation on both our parts. I do not want you to think I am just defending on side because the cop could very well be telling the truth about what happened or maybe some facts are incoorect on both sides. But what remains for me is that the actions of the cop led to the loss of a life and the cop could have done thing sdifferently. Can't chng ewhat has alredy happened but it seems things were done the incorrect way in this matter and the loss of a life is never a good thing.

I understand, I think to many people assume an unarmed man, even a 6'4 300 pound unarmed man, poses a laughable threat to a cop.  MB was a big guy, if the officer was within an arms reach of him, than literally anything can happen, a gun can be wrestled, a choke hold could be put on the cop, we know MB friend lied about what happened but he could have been a threat to the cop as well, you only have an advantage with a gun when a threat is several arm lenghts away.  

And like you said, we don't know what happened at the critical point, but we do know that MB had done things leading up to this and we probably will never know exactly what happened and who was at fault.  Therefore the riots and all that BS it totally unwarranted as all the facts haven't come out yet, we haven't even heard the officers side of the story, and the rioting only hurts the people of Ferguson, many businesses will leave, taxes will go up to pay for all the manpower and the town will have reputation for a long time.  

But a few on here think that cops should only unholster their gun when they are getting shot at.  And that's stupid, just the sight of a gun drawn on your should seperate the smart from the foolish, and we can't say whether MB was rushing the cop or not, but the evidence contradicts the friend so I feel like if it were unjustified that friend and the evidence so far would support that the cop acted unethically.



MegaManX said:

I understand, I think to many people assume an unarmed man, even a 6'4 300 pound unarmed man, poses a laughable threat to a cop.  MB was a big guy, if the officer was within an arms reach of him, than literally anything can happen, a gun can be wrestled, a choke hold could be put on the cop, we know MB friend lied about what happened but he could have been a threat to the cop as well, you only have an advantage with a gun when a threat is several arm lenghts away.  

And like you said, we don't know what happened at the critical point, but we do know that MB had done things leading up to this and we probably will never know exactly what happened and who was at fault.  Therefore the riots and all that BS it totally unwarranted as all the facts haven't come out yet, we haven't even heard the officers side of the story, and the rioting only hurts the people of Ferguson, many businesses will leave, taxes will go up to pay for all the manpower and the town will have reputation for a long time.  

But a few on here think that cops should only unholster their gun when they are getting shot at.  And that's stupid, just the sight of a gun drawn on your should seperate the smart from the foolish, and we can't say whether MB was rushing the cop or not, but the evidence contradicts the friend so I feel like if it were unjustified that friend and the evidence so far would support that the cop acted unethically.

Yeah it is a sad situation all around. The looting and rioting has be sick and upset with the community. My son can't even start school yet because of all the mess that is going on. It is a very tense and frustrating time/situation here and now. I am all for the peaceful protesting for the right cause. But some people are not out there for any other cause other than their own personal agendas tot ake advantage of a hoirrible situation to steal, rob and go at it with cops.......sad times.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

MegaManX said:

Micheal Brown was walking down the middle of the street when the confrontation started, he had just robbed a store and was not being discreet.  It's probably, but we don't know fully since even the friend has been discredited, that MB may not have taken lightly to being confronted by a cop even if it's a simple command since you can't walk down a street like that.  You say the cop feared an ass whippin like it should just be part of the job, a cop has responsibilities, they don't want to deal with hostile people, and if he assaulted the cop or tried to grab his gun then he has commited multiple felonies and is now a very real threat especially with a guy his size.  Cops have to deal with a lot of shit people, you won't last long as a cop if you think you can take out every person with just your fists, I think you don't understand what cops have to deal with or how quickly you can find yourself in a life or death circumstance.  You may not like cops, but the friend even admitted they were walking down the middle of the street and he just robbed a store!  So clearly he was not being harassed because he was black, the guy clearly thought highly of himself and knew his size would intimidate people.  I think he got aggressive with the cop and the cop had to do it, we all know how to behave around cops, if you have to take some shit especially as in this case where it was warranted then so be it, anybody that assaults a cop is asking for it.  

In regards to the 6 shots, I guess you have never been in a life threatening circumstance, nor have I, but I can imagine if a big guy is coming at you and already tried to grab your gun, that you might fire off several shots.  You also don't realize that he wasn't a still target, most shots hit him in the arm, he's a big guy, the adreneline is flowing, you may not feel it right away, in a literal matter of seconds a lot happens and the reactions aren't instant.  Or he did and as the cop fired off, he reacted to it and fell into the other shots, you make it sound like he was 20 feet away and unmoving throughout the whole process.  If he was charging the cop, clearly he moving, perhaps bent over and who knows how he will react, you can aim for one part of the body and even if you have great accuracy, you can't take into account whether a wound will make them fall or lean into a shot making a nonlethal one lethal.


You guess wrong, I have been shot at by police. They were aiming for my head and I was unarmed. Bullets whizzed by really close to my ear, it felt like i was slapped in the ear. I thought I was hit, they emptied out their clips and reloaded twice. Several cars and houses got hit, 14th district police were sued by half my block. 

I have seen way too much abuse of power by police to give them the benefit of the doubt. I am not defending Brown, I don't know all the facts and more is being released as we speak:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/20/missouri-cop-was-badly-beaten-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/

 

He may have feared for his life, my assumption may have been wrong. It seemed to me at first  that the cop just lost his cool after feeling like he was disrespected. If he put his hands on the cop like that, he should have known what was coming next. Brown obviously wasn't new to the streets.

Growing up on the west side of Chicago I've seen a lot of dirty cops. I've been held for three days and beat while handcuffed to a pole on the wall. I don't trust police for shit. They deal with a lot of shit, sure. But they deal out a lot of shit too. That knife cuts both ways, and that's why people are losing respect for police.