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curl-6 said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
curl-6 said:

This, plus Nintendo and Microsoft idiotically sabotaging themselves.

All Sony had to do was not fuck up epically and win by default.

Call me a hater, but I do find it a bit concerning, that gamers have reached the point where we will pay out the wazoo on the vague promise of "greatness awaits" and shinier versions of last gen games. I believe it's a result of the "preorder" culture in modern gaming; we no longer wait until the product actually delivers, we pay now for the promise of future content.

This seems to me a dangerous precedent in an industry that increasingly abuses such trust and tries to milk consumers of every nickel and dime they can.

Isn't this the case every generation though?

PS3 fucked up last gen, Gamecube fucked up the gen before, Dreamcast fucked up before then, Saturn (I think it was Saturn fcked up for then), then a Atari fcked up.

Didn't the Wii sell off of hype, didn't the PS2 sell off of hype, the ps1, SNES, NES, etc...

Not every gen; Genesis didn't fuck up in the 4th gen, and 360/PS3 recovered from their growing pains in the 7th. As a result, those gens had healthy competition.

The winning system always has hype, yes. But in my humble opinion, the hype has never been this unfounded.

I really don't mean this as bashing; but there's really no way I can say this without sounding like I'm "hating". It's just that the message that PS4's sales explosions sends the industry is a worrying one in my view. It says we as an audience are okay with game droughts and schedules padded out with last gen ports, and that all we want from our "next gen" system is the same games, just shinier.

Wouldn't they be saying that if ANY of the systems were in the lead? The One has gotten worst support than the PS4. They are now buying exclusives (timed or not) to pad out their line up.  And the Wii U is the worst when it comes to droughts. It's been out a year longer than the PS4 and One, but hasn't amassed a catalog any bigger than the two systems that have only been out for 9 months.  Each console has gotten their share of remastered ports, just like last gen.  That doesn't stop them from gaining a great catalog of great games.  And shinier graphics are a BIG reason why we move onto a new gen.  Otherwise, we'd still be playing Ataris.

 

No, the reason people like to claim its just hype is because they are mad that their console of choice didn't catch on.  Hype also gives them the hope that its sales will plummet, because the PS4 won't match the hype. Nothing more, nothing less.



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thismeintiel said:
curl-6 said:

Not every gen; Genesis didn't fuck up in the 4th gen, and 360/PS3 recovered from their growing pains in the 7th. As a result, those gens had healthy competition.

The winning system always has hype, yes. But in my humble opinion, the hype has never been this unfounded.

I really don't mean this as bashing; but there's really no way I can say this without sounding like I'm "hating". It's just that the message that PS4's sales explosions sends the industry is a worrying one in my view. It says we as an audience are okay with game droughts and schedules padded out with last gen ports, and that all we want from our "next gen" system is the same games, just shinier.

Wouldn't they be saying that if ANY of the systems were in the lead? The One has gotten worst support than the PS4. They are now buying exclusives (timed or not) to pad out their line up.  And the Wii U is the worst when it comes to droughts. It's been out a year longer than the PS4 and One, but hasn't amassed a catalog any bigger than the two systems that have only been out for 9 months.  Each console has gotten their share of remastered ports, just like last gen.  That doesn't stop them from gaining a great catalog of great games.  And shinier graphics are a BIG reason why we move onto a new gen.  Otherwise, we'd still be playing Ataris.

 

No, the reason people like to claim its just hype is because they are mad that their console of choice didn't catch on.  Hype also gives them the hope that its sales will plummet, because the PS4 won't match the hype. Nothing more, nothing less.

Your attempt to try to turn this into a console war is misguided and unnecessary. 

None of the 8th gen systems deserve to be selling as the PS4 is. Wii U deservedly suffered in its first year due to a lack of games. Now PS4 is committing the same sin, but it somehow gets a free pass cos it's the "cool" console. This tells the industry, "hey, don't bother actually giving us games, just give us an expensive box that plays PS3 games with a marginally cleaner picture and we'll be happy". I for one demand more than that.



prinz_valium said:
thismeintiel said:
prinz_valium said:


just wait for the iphone 6 relase to see what hype does

its the hype, what gets u to buy the product. its the decent / good product, that makes it keep u

thats how u sell much via hype.

 

 

u really dont get this?

LOL, I think you're the one who doesn't get this.  You think the iPhone would sell so much if the product was crap? No, it delivers buyers what they want.  Though, hype is what drives them to stand in line for hours to buy it.  The fact is the PS4 delivers, both in power and games.  Something people don't feel about the other two, at least not in great numbers, hence why they are falling behind.


did i say that?

i said a product get sold because hype and the people kepp it because its a good produc

but the inital reason to buy it not that people know / think its the best product. they only figure that out after they bought it because of the hype.

 

 

People don't get a product just based on hype. This is 2014, we have the internet for research.  After researching it, more gamers felt that the PS4 was a better bang for the buck.  And as I stated before, people know Sony delivers each gen.  They don't forget the people who bought their previous HW, just cause they're releasing a new console in a year or 3, like Nintendo and MS so often do.  So games are covered if you're a PS fan/owner.

 

My question is, what are you people going to be saying is selling the PS4 when it is 80M+, and the other two or still less than 40M-50M? More hype?



thismeintiel said:

People don't get a product just based on hype. This is 2014, we have the internet for research.  After researching it, more gamers felt that the PS4 was a better bang for the buck.  And as I stated before, people know Sony delivers each gen.  They don't forget the people who bought their previous HW, just cause they're releasing a new console in a year or 3, like Nintendo and MS so often do.  So games are covered if you're a PS fan/owner.

 

My question is, what are you people going to be saying is selling the PS4 when it is 80M+, and the other two or still less than 40M-50M? More hype?


u give people way to much credit here

phychology  and consumer behaviors is one of the most important factors today.

there is no 100% rational consumer.

 

ofc its not only the hype. and ofc its not hpye in 5 years anymore, but right now the exceed of sonys expectations is due to hype.



curl-6 said:
thismeintiel said:
curl-6 said:

Not every gen; Genesis didn't fuck up in the 4th gen, and 360/PS3 recovered from their growing pains in the 7th. As a result, those gens had healthy competition.

The winning system always has hype, yes. But in my humble opinion, the hype has never been this unfounded.

I really don't mean this as bashing; but there's really no way I can say this without sounding like I'm "hating". It's just that the message that PS4's sales explosions sends the industry is a worrying one in my view. It says we as an audience are okay with game droughts and schedules padded out with last gen ports, and that all we want from our "next gen" system is the same games, just shinier.

Wouldn't they be saying that if ANY of the systems were in the lead? The One has gotten worst support than the PS4. They are now buying exclusives (timed or not) to pad out their line up.  And the Wii U is the worst when it comes to droughts. It's been out a year longer than the PS4 and One, but hasn't amassed a catalog any bigger than the two systems that have only been out for 9 months.  Each console has gotten their share of remastered ports, just like last gen.  That doesn't stop them from gaining a great catalog of great games.  And shinier graphics are a BIG reason why we move onto a new gen.  Otherwise, we'd still be playing Ataris.

 

No, the reason people like to claim its just hype is because they are mad that their console of choice didn't catch on.  Hype also gives them the hope that its sales will plummet, because the PS4 won't match the hype. Nothing more, nothing less.

Your attempt to try to turn this into a console war is misguided and unnecessary. 

None of the 8th gen systems deserve to be selling as the PS4 is. Wii U deservedly suffered in its first year due to a lack of games. Now PS4 is committing the same sin, but it somehow gets a free pass cos it's the "cool" console. This tells the industry, "hey, don't bother actually giving us games, just give us an expensive box that plays PS3 games with a marginally cleaner picture and we'll be happy". I for one demand more than that.

Did you buy a Wii U? If so, than I suppose you don't demand more, cause its still committing the same sins that you described, though to a slightly lesser degree.

 

And the PS4 is delivering.  There's a thing called 3rd party support.  3rd parties make excellent games, as well, that help also push a system.  It doesn't hurt that the PS4 is the most powerful, so it'll be the best place to play those games if you are a console gamer.  Then, you have fun indie titles that add to the catalog, as well as Sony's great 1st party support, which will really ramp up in 2015.  You also have the fact that Sony doesn't drop support for its gamers just because they are about to launch a new console, as Nintendo and MS often do, so gamers know they'll still have games coming to them even when this gen is about done.

 

So, if you can look at the above and still say it's only because of hype, sorry, but I think you are looking at this with a console war mentality. Even being a PS fan, I get the appeal of the Wii U, and will probably buy one when it drops low enough in price.



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thismeintiel said:

Did you buy a Wii U? If so, than I suppose you don't demand more, cause its still committing the same sins that you described, though to a slightly lesser degree.

And the PS4 is delivering.  There's a thing called 3rd party support.  3rd parties make excellent games, as well, that help also push a system.  It doesn't hurt that the PS4 is the most powerful, so it'll be the best place to play those games if you are a console gamer.  Then, you have fun indie titles that add to the catalog, as well as Sony's great 1st party support, which will really ramp up in 2015.  You also have the fact that Sony doesn't drop support for its gamers just because they are about to launch a new console, as Nintendo and MS often do, so gamers know they'll still have games coming to them even when this gen is about done.

So, if you can look at the above and still say it's only because of hype, sorry, but I think you are looking at this with a console war mentality. Even being a PS fan, I get the appeal of the Wii U, and will probably buy one when it drops low enough in price.

I did not buy a Wii U in its first year for the same reason I'm not buying a PS4 or an Xbox One in their first year; the library wasn't there yet.

I am very open to getting a PS4 (And an Xbox one, for that matter) once it expands its library in the future.

The "ramp up in 2015" part is the problem in my view. If it gets a bunch of great games in 2015, then it deserves great sales... in 2015. Personally, I think it's dangerous to give the industry that idea that we'll pay now for promises a year away. (Though one could argue that with the growth of preorder culture, the genie is already out of the bottle)



prinz_valium said:
thismeintiel said:
 

People don't get a product just based on hype. This is 2014, we have the internet for research.  After researching it, more gamers felt that the PS4 was a better bang for the buck.  And as I stated before, people know Sony delivers each gen.  They don't forget the people who bought their previous HW, just cause they're releasing a new console in a year or 3, like Nintendo and MS so often do.  So games are covered if you're a PS fan/owner.

 

My question is, what are you people going to be saying is selling the PS4 when it is 80M+, and the other two or still less than 40M-50M? More hype?


u give people way to much credit here

phychology  and consumer behaviors is one of the most important factors today.

there is no 100% rational consumer.

 

ofc its not only the hype. and ofc its not hpye in 5 years anymore, but right now the exceed of sonys expectations is due to hype.

Maybe you don't give them enough credit. Look, are some people buying it because of hype? Yes, when it first launched.  But, they are in the very small minority.  Right now, mostly core gamers are buying these systems.  This isn't something moms and dads are getting their kids in great numbers. Not yet, anyway.  And core gamers are going to be buying the PS4 after doing research or because of word of mouth.  The time for hype is over.  The consoles have to actually be delivering for them to sell this late after launch.

 

And the only reason this exceeds their expectations is because they probably thought it was going to be more like last gen, where they had great competition on both sides, though mostly from MS.  I doubt they expected this to be like the PS1 and PS2 gens, where they just crushed the competition.



curl-6 said:
thismeintiel said:

Did you buy a Wii U? If so, than I suppose you don't demand more, cause its still committing the same sins that you described, though to a slightly lesser degree.

And the PS4 is delivering.  There's a thing called 3rd party support.  3rd parties make excellent games, as well, that help also push a system.  It doesn't hurt that the PS4 is the most powerful, so it'll be the best place to play those games if you are a console gamer.  Then, you have fun indie titles that add to the catalog, as well as Sony's great 1st party support, which will really ramp up in 2015.  You also have the fact that Sony doesn't drop support for its gamers just because they are about to launch a new console, as Nintendo and MS often do, so gamers know they'll still have games coming to them even when this gen is about done.

So, if you can look at the above and still say it's only because of hype, sorry, but I think you are looking at this with a console war mentality. Even being a PS fan, I get the appeal of the Wii U, and will probably buy one when it drops low enough in price.

I did not buy a Wii U in its first year for the same reason I'm not buying a PS4 or an Xbox One in their first year; the library wasn't there yet.

I am very open to getting a PS4 (And an Xbox one, for that matter) once it expands its library in the future.

The "ramp up in 2015" part is the problem in my view. If it gets a bunch of great games in 2015, then it deserves great sales... in 2015. Personally, I think it's dangerous to give the industry that idea that we'll pay now for promises a year away. (Though one could argue that with the growth of preorder culture, the genie is already out of the bottle)

You do realize there have been some good/great games for the PS4 already, right? Games that have sold millions?

 

And thre has never been a console that has only sold on what came out the year of purchase. To assume that is naive, or ignorant.  Consoles always sell for what is available now AND what the future holds. Why do you think companies spend millions on conferences to show off upcoming games?  Like I said, because consoles also sell on what's to come.  Many have even bought the Wii U already because of future Mario and Zelda games, and there's nothing wrong with that. 

 

Now, just wait and see sales next year when the big titles start dropping.  



thismeintiel said:

You do realize there have been some good/great games for the PS4 already, right? Games that have sold millions?

And thre has never been a console that has only sold on what came out the year of purchase. To assume that is naive, or ignorant.  Consoles always sell for what is available now AND what the future holds. Why do you think companies spend millions on conferences to show off upcoming games?  Like I said, because consoles also sell on what's to come.  Many have even bought the Wii U already because of future Mario and Zelda games, and there's nothing wrong with that. 

Now, just wait and see sales next year when the big titles start dropping.  

The majority of PS4's big sellers, including all of the top 4, are last gen ports.

The way I see it, future promise should be part of the reason for a console purchase, not the main reason.

And I won't have any issue with high PS4 sales once it has the software to justify it.



I don't really understand it either. By this point in the PS3's lifecycle, the PS2 was dead in the water as far as games were concerned. By contrast, the PS3 and Xbox 360 are still getting a significant amount of third party support. None of last year's big titles were exclusive to current gen, and even some of this year's big games are on 7th gen hardware.



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