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Forums - Sales Discussion - When will PS4 reach 10 million sold? - ioi comments on undertracking

joeorc on 19 August 2014

Well ioi,

Was Sony"

"If Sony's numbers are to be believed"

backed up and supported by other independant data. ?

I mean you stated it yourself, that must mean those have not been confirmed by a 3rd party , so what 3rd party data services are needed to confirm this sales through data?



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

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Phronesis on 19 August 2014
overman1 said:
Phronesis said:
overman1 said:
Phronesis said:
People wanted explanations. ioi gave us, now they complain.
Fuck logic.

Really, people? How hard is to understand that just adding numbers is not the solution, Sony won't give a report specifying their sales, so it's not simple. This site is not 100% accurate because they use their sources to ESTIMATE the sales. And for a free service, I think they do a good job.


I really dont think people expect VGChartz to the 100% accurate. If you read back to ioi's originial post. it seemed He was isinuating that most likely Sony was "lying" about their numbers than his own accuracy about the sales figures. I really think that is what got people riled up. Everyone knows this site isnt perfect but I guess he worded his sentence wrong. 

He didn't say Sony was lying, he says they can't follow the statement blindly because the numbers must match with other sources.

The same rules apply to any company. Imagine the following scenario: the amount of sales creates perception about the product. People believe that the bestseller is obviously the better product. So Sony or Microsoft could easily say that they sold 30 million. It's a very positive number.

They don't need to specify their reports since they are secret.

They don't need to explain anything.

But this site does.

Don't worry, Sony is not lying, but so long VGChartz need multiple sources to specify which regions are buying and other details, they can't take Sony as the only source. Where is the system selling? Japan? Nobody knows. So they add sales to that graphic and what happens to the others sales projection? They break.

It's a matter of security and trustworthy as much as a college works can't use a single specialist as source, it would be considered a biased work and your teachers won't give an A+ for it.

"if Sony's number are to be trusted"

sounds more to me like he isinuating that Sony may be untrue in their sales projections. The problem is that VGChartz is almost never right about their own trackings. ioi himself told me he uses the number of new XBL and PSN accounts to estimate his trackings. 

with this method, what about countries in Tier 2 areas like eastern europe or South Africa or India where the internet might be terrible or non-existent but the PS4 is still selling quite well? The problem is that it really seems like the tracking system on this site is lacking severely.  However, It gives out estimates and most certainly the leading console on VGChartz is always the leading console (even when the gaps arent always correct) when the official data is released so people still stick to this site

Also the community isnt too shabby either. 

 

Fuck Sony, dude. You are more worried about someone insulting your wife than the correct projection of numbers.

I don't even understand why people bother so much about it. The only people VGC should be really explaining their graphics are the ones who buy the detailed reports. And I would sure be pissed If I paid them to deliver me datas and the infos are incomplete. Sony info IS incomplete. They only said they sold 10 million. To who? Where? When? Doesn't it matter? Sure it does.

Moderated,

-Mr Khan



3DS, Wii, PSP, Vita, PS2, PS3, PS4 & Steam.

vivster on 19 August 2014

Holy shit ioi changed his pic.
Looks a lot lest molestery now *thumbs up*

Having stuff backed up by independant sources is the core policy of Wikipedia too. And people like that stuff.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

overman1 on 19 August 2014
Phronesis said:
overman1 said:
Phronesis said:
overman1 said:
Phronesis said:
People wanted explanations. ioi gave us, now they complain.
Fuck logic.

Really, people? How hard is to understand that just adding numbers is not the solution, Sony won't give a report specifying their sales, so it's not simple. This site is not 100% accurate because they use their sources to ESTIMATE the sales. And for a free service, I think they do a good job.


I really dont think people expect VGChartz to the 100% accurate. If you read back to ioi's originial post. it seemed He was isinuating that most likely Sony was "lying" about their numbers than his own accuracy about the sales figures. I really think that is what got people riled up. Everyone knows this site isnt perfect but I guess he worded his sentence wrong. 

He didn't say Sony was lying, he says they can't follow the statement blindly because the numbers must match with other sources.

The same rules apply to any company. Imagine the following scenario: the amount of sales creates perception about the product. People believe that the bestseller is obviously the better product. So Sony or Microsoft could easily say that they sold 30 million. It's a very positive number.

They don't need to specify their reports since they are secret.

They don't need to explain anything.

But this site does.

Don't worry, Sony is not lying, but so long VGChartz need multiple sources to specify which regions are buying and other details, they can't take Sony as the only source. Where is the system selling? Japan? Nobody knows. So they add sales to that graphic and what happens to the others sales projection? They break.

It's a matter of security and trustworthy as much as a college works can't use a single specialist as source, it would be considered a biased work and your teachers won't give an A+ for it.

"if Sony's number are to be trusted"

sounds more to me like he isinuating that Sony may be untrue in their sales projections. The problem is that VGChartz is almost never right about their own trackings. ioi himself told me he uses the number of new XBL and PSN accounts to estimate his trackings. 

with this method, what about countries in Tier 2 areas like eastern europe or South Africa or India where the internet might be terrible or non-existent but the PS4 is still selling quite well? The problem is that it really seems like the tracking system on this site is lacking severely.  However, It gives out estimates and most certainly the leading console on VGChartz is always the leading console (even when the gaps arent always correct) when the official data is released so people still stick to this site

Also the community isnt too shabby either. 

 

Fuck Sony, dude. You are more worried about someone insulting your wife than the correct projection of numbers.

I don't even understand why people bother so much about it. The only people VGC should be really explaining their graphics are the ones who buy the detailed reports. And I would sure be pissed If I paid them to deliver me datas and the infos are incomplete. Sony info IS incomplete. They only said they sold 10 million. To who? Where? When? Doesn't it matter? Sure it does.

wha?

I am lost...

well I guess that is it for this conversation.

bye bye now.



Phronesis on 19 August 2014
overman1 said:
Phronesis said:
overman1 said:
Phronesis said:
overman1 said:
Phronesis said:
People wanted explanations. ioi gave us, now they complain.
Fuck logic.

Really, people? How hard is to understand that just adding numbers is not the solution, Sony won't give a report specifying their sales, so it's not simple. This site is not 100% accurate because they use their sources to ESTIMATE the sales. And for a free service, I think they do a good job.


I really dont think people expect VGChartz to the 100% accurate. If you read back to ioi's originial post. it seemed He was isinuating that most likely Sony was "lying" about their numbers than his own accuracy about the sales figures. I really think that is what got people riled up. Everyone knows this site isnt perfect but I guess he worded his sentence wrong. 

He didn't say Sony was lying, he says they can't follow the statement blindly because the numbers must match with other sources.

The same rules apply to any company. Imagine the following scenario: the amount of sales creates perception about the product. People believe that the bestseller is obviously the better product. So Sony or Microsoft could easily say that they sold 30 million. It's a very positive number.

They don't need to specify their reports since they are secret.

They don't need to explain anything.

But this site does.

Don't worry, Sony is not lying, but so long VGChartz need multiple sources to specify which regions are buying and other details, they can't take Sony as the only source. Where is the system selling? Japan? Nobody knows. So they add sales to that graphic and what happens to the others sales projection? They break.

It's a matter of security and trustworthy as much as a college works can't use a single specialist as source, it would be considered a biased work and your teachers won't give an A+ for it.

"if Sony's number are to be trusted"

sounds more to me like he isinuating that Sony may be untrue in their sales projections. The problem is that VGChartz is almost never right about their own trackings. ioi himself told me he uses the number of new XBL and PSN accounts to estimate his trackings. 

with this method, what about countries in Tier 2 areas like eastern europe or South Africa or India where the internet might be terrible or non-existent but the PS4 is still selling quite well? The problem is that it really seems like the tracking system on this site is lacking severely.  However, It gives out estimates and most certainly the leading console on VGChartz is always the leading console (even when the gaps arent always correct) when the official data is released so people still stick to this site

Also the community isnt too shabby either. 

 

Fuck Sony, dude. You are more worried about someone insulting your wife than the correct projection of numbers.

I don't even understand why people bother so much about it. The only people VGC should be really explaining their graphics are the ones who buy the detailed reports. And I would sure be pissed If I paid them to deliver me datas and the infos are incomplete. Sony info IS incomplete. They only said they sold 10 million. To who? Where? When? Doesn't it matter? Sure it does.

wha?

I am lost...

well I guess that is it for this conversation.

bye bye now.

See ya.



3DS, Wii, PSP, Vita, PS2, PS3, PS4 & Steam.

Around the Network
DonFerrari on 19 August 2014
Phronesis said:
overman1 said:
Phronesis said:

He didn't say Sony was lying, he says they can't follow the statement blindly because the numbers must match with other sources.

The same rules apply to any company. Imagine the following scenario: the amount of sales creates perception about the product. People believe that the bestseller is obviously the better product. So Sony or Microsoft could easily say that they sold 30 million. It's a very positive number.

They don't need to specify their reports since they are secret.

They don't need to explain anything.

But this site does.

Don't worry, Sony is not lying, but so long VGChartz need multiple sources to specify which regions are buying and other details, they can't take Sony as the only source. Where is the system selling? Japan? Nobody knows. So they add sales to that graphic and what happens to the others sales projection? They break.

It's a matter of security and trustworthy as much as a college works can't use a single specialist as source, it would be considered a biased work and your teachers won't give an A+ for it.

"if Sony's number are to be trusted"

sounds more to me like he isinuating that Sony may be untrue in their sales projections. The problem is that VGChartz is almost never right about their own trackings. ioi himself told me he uses the number of new XBL and PSN accounts to estimate his trackings. 

with this method, what about countries in Tier 2 areas like eastern europe or South Africa or India where the internet might be terrible or non-existent but the PS4 is still selling quite well? The problem is that it really seems like the tracking system on this site is lacking severely.  However, It gives out estimates and most certainly the leading console on VGChartz is always the leading console (even when the gaps arent always correct) when the official data is released so people still stick to this site

Also the community isnt too shabby either. 

 

Fuck Sony, dude. You are more worried about someone insulting your wife than the correct projection of numbers.

I don't even understand why people bother so much about it. The only people VGC should be really explaining their graphics are the ones who buy the detailed reports. And I would sure be pissed If I paid them to deliver me datas and the infos are incomplete. Sony info IS incomplete. They only said they sold 10 million. To who? Where? When? Doesn't it matter? Sure it does.


Please keep quotes trimmed.

And sony said to who and when... the break down of regions isn't necessary in the stage, they aren't selling that data to anyone.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Dr.Henry_Killinger on 19 August 2014
Baalzamon said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

VGChartz is guaranteed to have less money, than Sony. It follows that they have less resources than Sony to make estimates. So under no circumstances can VGChartz make better estimates then Sony.

Holy crap. Under NO circumstances? I can't believe somebody just said that because Company A is smaller than Company B, Company A can never ever ever be as accurate as Company B. Hell, with that logic, why the hell are companies paying NPD and other 3rd party sources for sales information. They are much smaller than Sony and Microsoft...why don't they just pay them for their information that is clearly more accurate because they are bigger.

None whatsoever.

Pay attention, the crux of the argument, and why your doubt has no basis is that ioi does not have more resources to make estimates than Sony does. Those 3rd party sources not only track smaller areas then the entire world like VGC or Sony ala US, Japan, or Europe, but they also have more dedicated resources.

You can extrapolate that I'm saying VGC has worse tracking because they have less money than Sony. I'm saying their have less resources to base their estimates on.

NPD will have better estimates then Sony does regarding the USA only, they will have more access to USA data then Sony does.

But the vast majority of VGC data is publically avaliable data that Sony readilly has access to, a long with retailer shipping orders, and private tracking firms that ioi doesn't have.

The issue here is that Sony's numbers aren't wrong, the problem here is that ioi doesn't know yet where to place the discrepancy, which he will. Any doubt should be evaporated because to suggest that A. a tracking algorithm based off the sales of last gen has been wrong and consistently wrong is now right this one time is more likely then B. Sony commiting PR suicide to make unnecessary Public PR claim that could be disatrous to them if wrong.

Its essentially saying, Sony is either insane vs VGC undertracked again.

=_=



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

vivster on 19 August 2014
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

None whatsoever.

Pay attention, the crux of the argument, and why your doubt has no basis is that ioi does not have more resources to make estimates than Sony does. Those 3rd party sources not only track smaller areas then the entire world like VGC or Sony ala US, Japan, or Europe, but they also have more dedicated resources.

You can extrapolate that I'm saying VGC has worse tracking because they have less money than Sony. I'm saying their have less resources to base their estimates on.

NPD will have better estimates then Sony does regarding the USA only, they will have more access to USA data then Sony does.

But the vast majority of VGC data is publically avaliable data that Sony readilly has access to, a long with retailer shipping orders, and private tracking firms that ioi doesn't have.

The issue here is that Sony's numbers aren't wrong, the problem here is that ioi doesn't know yet where to place the discrepancy, which he will. Any doubt should be evaporated because to suggest that A. a tracking algorithm based off the sales of last gen has been wrong and consistently wrong is now right this one time is more likely then B. Sony commiting PR suicide to make unnecessary Public PR claim that could be disatrous to them if wrong.

Its essentially saying, Sony is either insane vs VGC undertracked again.

=_=

Though we should also take into account that unlike VGC, Sony has an agenda. So even if they have the better resources, it doesn't make them more reliable. It might be that they're willingly or even unconsciously incorporating bias into their estimations.

Tweaking some variables to round up the numbers. Tweaking variables is always a good thing to include certain trends or some anomalies. But you can be sure that whatever kind of tweaking Sony is doing will always be beneficial to their numbers. So even if the numbers are within reason and if they have a lot of resources to base their extrapolation on, there will still be a margin of error that is more likely tilted to less units when it's coming from the manufacturer.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Phronesis on 19 August 2014

People must remember the time when Xbox One said they sold 5 million units, when later it was specified that this number was shipped to stores. That's why you can't have a single source.

I don't know VGChartz methods so well but I disagree with people saying the data is wrong when they clearly don't understand too.

Btw, that's why VGChartz can't be the only source of sales too. Even if the estimates are good, it doesn't hurt to see other sites.



3DS, Wii, PSP, Vita, PS2, PS3, PS4 & Steam.

Aura7541 on 19 August 2014

Why some people doubt Sony's numbers is beyond me. I'm quite embarrassed to see certain users here who believe VGC over Sony -_-"