By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Help me debunk this racist

m0ney said:
I'm not a racist but this question makes me wander (please don't ban me) - why hasn't there been a great black civilization in the past? Also why none of the black Africa countries prospers. Also why hasn't any of the big inventions come from Africa, you know wheel, paper, gun powder etc.

Check my post on the page before this one for an answer on modern times. And watch out for Angola, they are becoming more self autonomous after nationalizing all their resources.



Around the Network

I got the impression you are the guy with that thesis but since you want to discuss it, in earnest you use "him" as a scapegoat. So you can check your thesis for holes without someone pulling the racism card and derailing the discussion.

I have to dissapoint you. I don`t know enough about the topic to refute it or confirm it.



o_O.Q said:
TheLastStarFighter said:

Some thoughts:

-The Nobel prize thing is stupid, so don't even bother arguing with this guy.

-Also, the lack of successful black governments may say something about current or past "black culture", but it says nothing about intelligence.  I would say it's more about education and time.

-That said, it's silly to say one race couldn't be "smarter" than another, on average.  Some groups of people are taller, shorter, lighter, darker, faster, etc.  There is nothing wrong with saying a group could be, on average, smarter.  It's not a racist statement.  It's racist to say it without foundation, however, and the Nobel prize thing is a very weak argument.

-For those who don't know, there are three races in the world:  Asian, Caucasian, and African.  Indians, Arabs, etc are Caucasian, just like Brits or French or Germans.  Also Caucasian are ancient Egyptians, who do not share common DNA with either Africans or the current Arab-dominated population.  The closest modern-day relations of ancient Egyptians are the Copts.  They can be darker skin, and often have a broader nose than most Caucasians - and Romans may have called them "black", but it doesn't mean they are of Affrican Race.  Modern Copts, with their broad noses, wide ears and reddish-brown skin look a fair amount like classic Egyptian wall paintings:


based on?

Biological classification.  An ancient Egyptian is a modern Coptic.  Coptics are Caucasians based on the traits used to set up the classifications.  That said, the whole idea of "race" is very arbitrary and humans classifying themselves by chosen rules.  But the race classifications would make a Coptic a Caucasion.



Somalia, Ethiopia, the Songhai Empire of present-day Mali (Timbuktu, etc), the Sultanate of Zanzibar, Great Zimbabwe (medieval trading city that modern Zimbabwe is named for).

The nobel prizes, too, tend to be heavily European biased. Remember the year that the European Union as a whole won instead of Malala Yousafazi?

Then we have to realize that Europe did not set Africa up for success when they colonized them, nor when they left. They used the continent for raw materials and cheap labor, packed up, and left a society designed around cash crops and not much else. How many educated people are such societies going to produce compared to industrial and post-industrial Europe/Asia/North America?

Latin America has a similar yoke on her. How many Latinos (Central/South Americans in a broad sense) win such prizes?

One's capacity to achieve has nothing to do with the color of your skin. What you achieve, however, has everything to do with the conditions you are raised in, which black people as a whole (whether in or out of Africa) generally have as a disadvantage.

See also: Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Have your friend ask him whether blacks are dumber than non-blacks.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

reggin_bolas said:

He also claims that there has been no civilization that has flourished under majority Black leadership beyond mere tribal status in the African continent. To be more than tribal, the civilization has to have achieved significant advances in cultural institutitons (e.g. art, education), warfare, technology, and/or commerce. Significant to mean avant-garde, at a rate above simularly situated people/cultures at the time. 

Please don't cite to Egypt as a refutal. How would you debunk this idiot? I'm curious because I don't know how to respond to him. 

 

well we all came from Africa and at one period we all were black. that is if evolution theory is not mistaken.



Tsubasa Ozora

Keiner kann ihn bremsen, keiner macht ihm was vor. Immer der richtige Schuss, immer zur richtigen Zeit. Superfussball, Fairer Fussball. Er ist unser Torschützenkönig und Held.

Around the Network
JazzB1987 said:
reggin_bolas said:

So I'm reading a post from this guy at another website I will not name who claims that Blacks are generally less intelligent than other people/races of the world.

He cites to the fact that only 16 (out of 800) Nobel prize laureates have been Black of which only 4 have recieved awards in categories other than Peace. The Peace prize is considered less prestigious than other disciplines, many of which require an education. Filtered by continent as well, Africa has produced the fewest winners out of any other populated continent in the whole world.

He also claims that there has been no civilization that has flourished under majority Black leadership beyond mere tribal status in the African continent. To be more than tribal, the civilization has to have achieved significant advances in cultural institutitons (e.g. art, education), warfare, technology, and/or commerce. Significant to mean avant-garde, at a rate above simularly situated people/cultures at the time. 

Please don't cite to Egypt as a refutal. How would you debunk this idiot? I'm curious because I don't know how to respond to him. 

 

Dont misinterpret my post please but science actually says this is true. Its not like one becomes einstein and the other is a neanderthaler or whatever its just single digits in percentage or whatever. This has actually not much inpact in reallife.
It also just works if everyone would live the exact same life with the same childhood/education etc.

According to the studies it goes like that:
from "smart to not so smat"
Asians
Caucasians
Arabs etc.
Blacks

And from strong to weak its the exact opposite
Blacks are the strongerst physically
Arabs etc.
Caucasians
Asians.


This of course does not mean that a black person cannot be smarter than average asians. Its just the general "starting point". It has not much to do with racism but with evolution (what ethnicity used which part more in the past) and circumstances of life.

About the civilization thing. Some parts of Europe were just lucky to find out some things then it started to educate people. This could also have happened in africa but that was not the case it was just a coincidence nothing else (not every tribe in America was technologically advanced as the Aztecs/Maya etc and not every tribe in Europe was as advanced as Greeks/Romans)  Then Europe also advanced technologically because every country wanted to destroy the neighbouring country. War is one of the reasons.

In the last few hundred years africa simply had no chance to advance because Europe invaded Africa and because of slavery and whatnot. Even today we take advantage of Africa being "chaotic". We send food instead of infrastrucute because we want them to be dependant. The only thing of value farmers there can produce is food but because of our "free food" the farmers cannot sell their products.  We should built infrastructure to help them help themselves or leave them alone.

The west also gets cheaper minerals / diamonds etc because of the chaos there. And the dictators/regimes etc get more power thanks to our money we used to buy diamonds etc which results in even more chaos.

Europe was just lucky nothing else.

This issue goes far deeper  education and environment. This goes into our DNA and the differences we have in regard to learning and ability. The problem is that we continue to live under illusion that we are all created equal and that simply is not the case. We all have different strengths and weaknesses and yes this can be applied race by race. Unfortunately, having a frank conversation about race in this country will never happen. If you need proof this simply look at what's happening already..people being called "racist" and people generally freaking out. The so-called racist was simply pointing out a few facts and it's hard to argue against them. For example; if you attempt to correlate race and poverty and then review them along racial lines you will see a disproportionate number of crime committed by blacks. Do your own honest research and then have a calm reasonable attempt at debunking using hard facts.



Try to do at least ONE good deed everyday....

TheLastStarFighter said:
o_O.Q said:
TheLastStarFighter said:

Some thoughts:

-The Nobel prize thing is stupid, so don't even bother arguing with this guy.

-Also, the lack of successful black governments may say something about current or past "black culture", but it says nothing about intelligence.  I would say it's more about education and time.

-That said, it's silly to say one race couldn't be "smarter" than another, on average.  Some groups of people are taller, shorter, lighter, darker, faster, etc.  There is nothing wrong with saying a group could be, on average, smarter.  It's not a racist statement.  It's racist to say it without foundation, however, and the Nobel prize thing is a very weak argument.

-For those who don't know, there are three races in the world:  Asian, Caucasian, and African.  Indians, Arabs, etc are Caucasian, just like Brits or French or Germans.  Also Caucasian are ancient Egyptians, who do not share common DNA with either Africans or the current Arab-dominated population.  The closest modern-day relations of ancient Egyptians are the Copts.  They can be darker skin, and often have a broader nose than most Caucasians - and Romans may have called them "black", but it doesn't mean they are of Affrican Race.  Modern Copts, with their broad noses, wide ears and reddish-brown skin look a fair amount like classic Egyptian wall paintings:


based on?

Biological classification.  An ancient Egyptian is a modern Coptic.  Coptics are Caucasians based on the traits used to set up the classifications.  That said, the whole idea of "race" is very arbitrary and humans classifying themselves by chosen rules.  But the race classifications would make a Coptic a Caucasion.


but is there not various evidence that points to them being black?

such as their descriptions of themselves, how other people described them ( greeks and romans for example ), how they depicted themselves, how the bible describes them etc

imo you can't look at how things are now and extrapolate that to how things were 1000s of years back... if we look at america for example, a few centuries ago whites had not established civilisation there, but they came and exterminated most of the indiginous people and set up their civilisation dramatically changing the american population



have to comment though on the irony of calling africa poor... when europeans steal most of the resources to enrich their countries, such as oil, gold, man power etc



Tamron said:

To be honest, the way the OP is setup, it feels more like these opinions are OP's and he wants to debate them without comitting to saying they're his and potentially earning himself a ban.

If i had to guess, I'd probably run with it being a reactionary response to : http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=188443&page=1#

If this isn't the case, OP. then the answer is simple.

Don't respond to him, why waste your time?


I think that's a very hurtful and baseless accusation which I hope you will withdraw without pause. 

 



reggin_bolas said:
Tamron said:

To be honest, the way the OP is setup, it feels more like these opinions are OP's and he wants to debate them without comitting to saying they're his and potentially earning himself a ban.

If i had to guess, I'd probably run with it being a reactionary response to : http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=188443&page=1#

If this isn't the case, OP. then the answer is simple.

Don't respond to him, why waste your time?


I think that's a very hurtful and baseless accusation which I hope you will withdraw without pause. 

 


you haven't yet cited why egypt does not apply or sumer for that matter

those civilisations in some respects showed evidence of technology that even today we don't completely understand