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Locked: A cut to 299 might not help X1 much

Forums - Gaming Discussion - A cut to 299 might not help X1 much

Captain_Tom said:

Forgive me as I only read the first 3 sentences of your wall of text (Tone it down next time).  I don't want MS to leave gaming per se... What I want is for them to stop burning money in the Xbox pitt and focus on PC.  They could simply put their real first party exclusives on PC and bolster its catalog.  And yes it is a financial disaster:

http://www.neowin.net/news/report-microsofts-xbox-division-has-lost-nearly-3-billion-in-10-years

That graph doesn't even take into acount the 7 billion dollars in losses the first Xbox created.  Do you really think MS made up all that money from 2013-2014?  Not with how X1 is doing.

 

But not only are they wasting their own money, but they are constantly holding back gaming with their money hatting, consistantly inferior hardware, and archaic parity clauses.  If people want real competion in consoles they should want MS to exit.


Do those numbers count software sales and revenue related to XBLA? Cause that sounds impossibly high. In that case, wouldn't Playstation's 5bil loss put them in the red overall as well?



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Trunkin said:
Captain_Tom said:

Forgive me as I only read the first 3 sentences of your wall of text (Tone it down next time).  I don't want MS to leave gaming per se... What I want is for them to stop burning money in the Xbox pitt and focus on PC.  They could simply put their real first party exclusives on PC and bolster its catalog.  And yes it is a financial disaster:

http://www.neowin.net/news/report-microsofts-xbox-division-has-lost-nearly-3-billion-in-10-years

That graph doesn't even take into acount the 7 billion dollars in losses the first Xbox created.  Do you really think MS made up all that money from 2013-2014?  Not with how X1 is doing.

 

But not only are they wasting their own money, but they are constantly holding back gaming with their money hatting, consistantly inferior hardware, and archaic parity clauses.  If people want real competion in consoles they should want MS to exit.


Do those numbers count software sales and revenue related to XBLA? Cause that sounds impossibly high. In that case, wouldn't Playstation's 5bil loss put them in the red overall as well?


-As far as I can tell, yes that takes all things Xbox into account.

-This is the best I can find for PS profit:

http://i.imgur.com/1btMQH0.png

It looks bad at first, but if you add up the numbers in just this timespan it is clear that Sony has still profited far more than they lost (Like 50% more).  Also keep in mind that his chart does not include 2011 or 2012 which were the most profitable years for the PS3 with PS+ and so they likely wiped out most of those PS3 losses.  Then throw in the crazy financial success of the PS4 for another year and you can see that they probably have doubled their total investments.  Far better than Xbox.



binary solo said:

Just as well that wasn't the statement he made then. He said Xbox has been a financial disaster. Somewhat exaggerated but the essence of it is true. Across the 3 generations the net financial effect on Microsoft has been negative. That the devices division has been profitable is down to other products in that division. 360 was for sure profitable on an annual basis for MS for a few years, but not long enough to make up the losses before and after. Now MS is giving away 3rd party games as well as cutting the price of Xb one. No way Xb one is making MS any profit this year. But the losses will be hidden from the public because the division will make profit eslewhere.

Before anyone can call the Xbox division a financial disaster, its best to understand what the division means to MS.  There is a huge difference between how forum poster view something then how the company making the product view things.  Forum poster live for the moment to moment sales and think with their party lines more than with how a company views a product in their portfolio.  There are still people who believe that the PS3 was a profitable and valuable product to Sony even though the  numbers show it was a total disaster for the company and pretty much put them in the red for years.  

Also products are not always viewed on how much profit they bring but also about market share and what that market share and branding does for the overall products within a company.  For the Xbox division, the services that are behind the actual hardware is more important to MS than profits.  Expanding the Name and generating market share is probably more important to MS as a company then what gamers conceive or believe is important.  This was the case with Sony with the PS3 where they cut everything they could including any profits for years to gain market share because keeping the brand strong and market share high keeps the company product in high visibility for them to sale their other products like PS Now, Music and Videos, games and Now TV.

 

If post are going to take this narrow view of Sony and MS console then they are not even close to understanding how large corporations like them work. 



manny10032 said:
I actually think 350 is the sweet spot.


This guy here deserves a medal!! great guy btw

 



3sexty said:
BeElite said:
Puppyroach said:
A cut to 299$ with a redesign, released in the summer would probably cause an explosion in sales. We all know what happened when PS3 got its redesign and pricecut, we would probably see something similar.

X1 is not the PS3, stop thinking it can ever pull what the PS3 did.  It lacks the brand power and world wide sales to do similar.

A cut to 299 will casue a sony reaction, there is a reason they only cut X1 price in NA and caleld it temporary.  Last thing they want to do is motivate Sony into a cut of their own.  World wid eits bad enough already, a PS4 cut woudl push many marlets to 10-1 sale sin PS4s favor.  


Do you really think Sony could afford to get into a price war with MS given its current horrendous financial state? You are aware of this aren't  you? The reason why MS took these measures is because yes they needed to become more competitive with PS4 and because they can quite comfortably afford to take these significant steps. They would have already costed and forecasted for these steps. Somehow I don't think its going to prevent their next quarterly earnings of further billions of dollars. Do you?

Given they already driven costs down PS is profitable and ohh yahh they them selves said they will persue sales hard they can easily do a cut.  Of course you dont think it, but reality is they would one becasue they would have to and two they have the ability.  Truth is MS fears them cutting which is why they only pulled a US only Temporary cut.   They know best a world wise cut now woudl sink the X1 for good.  They cant compete in most markets now a PS4 at 299 they woudl be literally dead in the water.  



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based on the strong sales of 349 it doesnt need to go any lower



Machiavellian said:
binary solo said:

Just as well that wasn't the statement he made then. He said Xbox has been a financial disaster. Somewhat exaggerated but the essence of it is true. Across the 3 generations the net financial effect on Microsoft has been negative. That the devices division has been profitable is down to other products in that division. 360 was for sure profitable on an annual basis for MS for a few years, but not long enough to make up the losses before and after. Now MS is giving away 3rd party games as well as cutting the price of Xb one. No way Xb one is making MS any profit this year. But the losses will be hidden from the public because the division will make profit eslewhere.

Before anyone can call the Xbox division a financial disaster, its best to understand what the division means to MS.  There is a huge difference between how forum poster view something then how the company making the product view things.  Forum poster live for the moment to moment sales and think with their party lines more than with how a company views a product in their portfolio.  There are still people who believe that the PS3 was a profitable and valuable product to Sony even though the  numbers show it was a total disaster for the company and pretty much put them in the red for years.  

Also products are not always viewed on how much profit they bring but also about market share and what that market share and branding does for the overall products within a company.  For the Xbox division, the services that are behind the actual hardware is more important to MS than profits.  Expanding the Name and generating market share is probably more important to MS as a company then what gamers conceive or believe is important.  This was the case with Sony with the PS3 where they cut everything they could including any profits for years to gain market share because keeping the brand strong and market share high keeps the company product in high visibility for them to sale their other products like PS Now, Music and Videos, games and Now TV.

 

If post are going to take this narrow view of Sony and MS console then they are not even close to understanding how large corporations like them work. 

Its a financial disaster like no other for them, thast a fact.  Its so bad some have called for it being span of or even shut down. 

What you are spinning is a bs fairy tale, facts is profits above all.  Sony blew billions on PS3 casue they though it services and BR would make it back.  Profit motivated them.   MS is no different, there is no fanboyish lets keep it going casue we can mentality or we can afford it we got billions.  MS had a long term strategy for Xbox, and the third one X1 was to make back all the losses and dominate.  Clealry its failing big time.  



Captain_Tom said:

Forgive me as I only read the first 3 sentences of your wall of text (Tone it down next time).  I don't want MS to leave gaming per se... What I want is for them to stop burning money in the Xbox pitt and focus on PC.  They could simply put their real first party exclusives on PC and bolster its catalog.  And yes it is a financial disaster:

http://www.neowin.net/news/report-microsofts-xbox-division-has-lost-nearly-3-billion-in-10-years

Xbox 360 was profitable in spite of losing a lot of money on hardware issues.

Frankly, $3 billion over 10 years is little to MS especially when the company as a whole is still very profitable. Xbox losses have also shrank over time.

Sony on the otherhand has been losing billions in spite of finding success again with Playstation. You should worry less about Xbox and more about Sony.



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shloob said:

based on the strong sales of 349 it doesnt need to go any lower


You're forgetting they are also throwing in a Assassins Creed: Unity and AC: Black Flag, and at Target they even included a $50 gift certificate with that. So, that's about $140 off of $329. They are so desperate for sales (or Target is so desperate to move all those piles and piles of xbones stacked in their warehouses) that they basically are selling the Xbone for $189 + tax.

 

$189 - Xbone

$60 - AC Unity

$50 - Gift Cert

$30 - AC4: Black Flag

= $329 

 

http://www.craveonline.com/gaming/articles/786445-black-friday-target-sell-xbox-one-ac-unity-bundle-329-50-gift-card



BeElite said:

MS had a long term strategy for Xbox, and the third one X1 was to make back all the losses and dominate.  Clealry its failing big time.  


Well the Xbox 360 lost billions early on and still became profitable.

Its unlikely X1 will lose that kind of money unless they run into some sort of hardware issues as well. So they can still make back losses like 360 did.



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