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Locked: A cut to 299 might not help X1 much

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Mr Puggsly said:
Captain_Tom said:
Mr Puggsly said:

My last post wasn't opinions, those were facts.

I don't care if MS achieves sales at par or better with PS4. They made some bad moves and are paying for it. I'm just glad X1 is relelvant platform, I like competition.

Yay indeed. Maybe we'll see strong sales for X1 throughout the holiday.

I always find it funny that people think that if one company quits then all competition is dead forever.  Look what happened when SEGA left:  MS came and kept Sony on their toes.  However they also implemented a dozen policies that stifle competition as well, and they have never fully commited to gaming.

Whose to say Samsung/Amazon/Apple couldn't enter the race and really shake things up like Sony did?

I don't believe those companies are interested in being a direct competitor with Playstation. That would be an investment of billions they may never recoup.

Samsung, Amazon, and Apple haven't even made a noteworthy TV media device. That tells me they don't care to be in that market.


You mean like MS hasn't?  You mean like Sony successfully has?

-Apple has already practically created a console with the combination of the Apple TV (Which is hugely successful might I add) and an iPad.

-Amazon has created dozens of successful products and I'll just leave it at that.

-Same thing with Samsung.  They are the only Android competitor to be able to really compete with Apple (Just like Sony did to Nintendo).  Who is to say they couldn't bring the heat?



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I think it is really dishonest saying the increase in ms sales was due the pricecut.
Actually in the past two weeks microsoft did everything in their power to surpass ps4:

-pricecut
-free game
-exclusive sunset overdrive + exlusive halo collection
-exclusive bundle and marketing on COD + exclusive bundle and marketing Assassin's Creed+ exclusive bundle on fifa still from october but the game is still selling well

So this november they really are going all in, and despite that their victory in NPD is not set in stone, cause a lot will be decided on black friday, and it's not like ps4 stopped selling.
Let's wait and see, this will be the most interesting NPD from a long time!



Captain_Tom said:


You mean like MS hasn't?  You mean like Sony successfully has?

-Apple has already practically created a console with the combination of the Apple TV (Which is hugely successful might I add) and an iPad.

-Amazon has created dozens of successful products and I'll just leave it at that.

-Same thing with Samsung.  They are the only Android competitor to be able to really compete with Apple (Just like Sony did to Nintendo).  Who is to say they couldn't bring the heat?

 

Xbox got MS's foot in a new market but its uncertain if its been financially worthwhile. Hence, there is little incentive for Samsung, Apple, or Amazon to jump in the console war.

People primarily buy the Apple TV for streaming video. Its not a noteworthy device beyond that.

Amazon has created successful products, but not a successful game console. Their devices being limited to the Amazon store is disappointing as well.

Samsung, Amazon, and Apple have the resources to compete but I don't think they're interested in that market. Very competitive and arguably not financially worth while. The PS4 is doing pretty damn good but still not making Sony profitable.



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Mr Puggsly said:

Captain_Tom said:


You mean like MS hasn't?  You mean like Sony successfully has?

-Apple has already practically created a console with the combination of the Apple TV (Which is hugely successful might I add) and an iPad.

-Amazon has created dozens of successful products and I'll just leave it at that.

-Same thing with Samsung.  They are the only Android competitor to be able to really compete with Apple (Just like Sony did to Nintendo).  Who is to say they couldn't bring the heat?

 

 

Xbox got MS's foot in a new market but its uncertain if its been financially worthwhile. Hence, there is little incentive for Samsung, Apple, or Amazon to jump in the console war.

Samsung, Amazon, and Apple have the resources to compete but I don't think they're interested in that market. Very competitive and arguably not financially worth while. The PS4 is doing pretty damn good but still not making Sony profitable.

1) There is no if about it.  Xbox has been a financial disaster for MS.  All of the data is out there.

2) Whether the others have yet is not the point.  One of them (Or someone else) very well could make an awesome console family if MS left room for a new competitor.  This is all hypethetical of course, but here is what we do know:

-MS hasn't been successful

-Others could be

Let's find out!



Captain_Tom said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Captain_Tom said:


You mean like MS hasn't?  You mean like Sony successfully has?

-Apple has already practically created a console with the combination of the Apple TV (Which is hugely successful might I add) and an iPad.

-Amazon has created dozens of successful products and I'll just leave it at that.

-Same thing with Samsung.  They are the only Android competitor to be able to really compete with Apple (Just like Sony did to Nintendo).  Who is to say they couldn't bring the heat?

 

 

Xbox got MS's foot in a new market but its uncertain if its been financially worthwhile. Hence, there is little incentive for Samsung, Apple, or Amazon to jump in the console war.

Samsung, Amazon, and Apple have the resources to compete but I don't think they're interested in that market. Very competitive and arguably not financially worth while. The PS4 is doing pretty damn good but still not making Sony profitable.

1) There is no if about it.  Xbox has been a financial disaster for MS.  All of the data is out there.

2) Whether the others have yet is not the point.  One of them (Or someone else) very well could make an awesome console family if MS left room for a new competitor.  This is all hypethetical of course, but here is what we do know:

-MS hasn't been successful

-Others could be

Let's find out!

I might be wrong here and please say so if I am but the tone of this post would suggest that you are dissappointed that Microsoft is still in the gaming business and that you want them to make an exit from gaming. I am interested to know why if this is your position. Also your statement that the gaming division is making disasterous losses is just false. The division has made a profit for the last 3 or so years and the statements from MS outline this. This is of course on top of the insanely huge profits the overall company is making and pales in comparison of course. What is the source for your contrasting beliefs. Please don't tell me it's  the same Forbes blogger that has been disproven on this site many times already. The profit and loss statements from MS should be the official source that people should be quoting. But of course some people just don't want believe this as it goes against there own agenda. Also I think we should get used to the idea that xbox is here to stay whether we like it or not. MS have committed to it and as you will note the recent competitive measures (and great turnaround numbers) being undertaking by them is testament to this. Also you need to remember that Sony only recently started making money on the gaming side of things thanks to the great success of PS4. You should consider that the Sony shareholders have been extremely patient. MS shareholders on the other hand are just raking it in with or without xbox. So basically the Xbox is really of miniscule effect to the enormous revenue machine that is MS. In contrast PlayStation is a welcomed recent profit maker which is of miniscule effect to the enormous loss making machine that is Sony.



Xbox 360 and Xbox One

Gamertag:  GamertagOz70

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BeElite said:
Puppyroach said:
A cut to 299$ with a redesign, released in the summer would probably cause an explosion in sales. We all know what happened when PS3 got its redesign and pricecut, we would probably see something similar.

X1 is not the PS3, stop thinking it can ever pull what the PS3 did.  It lacks the brand power and world wide sales to do similar.

A cut to 299 will casue a sony reaction, there is a reason they only cut X1 price in NA and caleld it temporary.  Last thing they want to do is motivate Sony into a cut of their own.  World wid eits bad enough already, a PS4 cut woudl push many marlets to 10-1 sale sin PS4s favor.  


Do you really think Sony could afford to get into a price war with MS given its current horrendous financial state? You are aware of this aren't  you? The reason why MS took these measures is because yes they needed to become more competitive with PS4 and because they can quite comfortably afford to take these significant steps. They would have already costed and forecasted for these steps. Somehow I don't think its going to prevent their next quarterly earnings of further billions of dollars. Do you?



Xbox 360 and Xbox One

Gamertag:  GamertagOz70

3sexty said:
Captain_Tom said:

1) There is no if about it.  Xbox has been a financial disaster for MS.  All of the data is out there.

2) Whether the others have yet is not the point.  One of them (Or someone else) very well could make an awesome console family if MS left room for a new competitor.  This is all hypethetical of course, but here is what we do know:

-MS hasn't been successful

-Others could be

Let's find out!

The tone of this post would suggest that you are dissappointed that Microsoft is still in the gaming business. I am interested to know why. Also your statement that the gaming division is making disasterous losses is just false. The division has made a profit for the last 3 or so years and the statements from MS outline this. This is of course on top of the insanely huge profits the overall company is making and pales in comparison of course. What is the source for your contrasting beliefs. Please don't tell me it the same Forbes blogger that has been disproven on this site many times already. The profit and loss statements from MS should be the official source that people should be quoting. But of course some people just don't want believe this as it goes against there own agenda. Also I think you should get used to the idea that xbox is here to stay whether you like it or not. MS have committed to it and as you will note the recent competitive measures (and great turnaround numbers) being undertaking by them is testament to this. Also you need to remember that Sony only recently started making money on the gaming side of things thanks to the great success of PS4. You should consider that the Sony shareholders have been extremely patient. MS shareholders on the other hand are just raking it in with or without xbox. 

Just as well that wasn't the statement he made then. He said Xbox has been a financial disaster. Somewhat exaggerated but the essence of it is true. Across the 3 generations the net financial effect on Microsoft has been negative. That the devices division has been profitable is down to other products in that division. 360 was for sure profitable on an annual basis for MS for a few years, but not long enough to make up the losses before and after. Now MS is giving away 3rd party games as well as cutting the price of Xb one. No way Xb one is making MS any profit this year. But the losses will be hidden from the public because the division will make profit eslewhere.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

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binary solo said:
3sexty said:
Captain_Tom said:

1) There is no if about it.  Xbox has been a financial disaster for MS.  All of the data is out there.

2) Whether the others have yet is not the point.  One of them (Or someone else) very well could make an awesome console family if MS left room for a new competitor.  This is all hypethetical of course, but here is what we do know:

-MS hasn't been successful

-Others could be

Let's find out!

The tone of this post would suggest that you are dissappointed that Microsoft is still in the gaming business. I am interested to know why. Also your statement that the gaming division is making disasterous losses is just false. The division has made a profit for the last 3 or so years and the statements from MS outline this. This is of course on top of the insanely huge profits the overall company is making and pales in comparison of course. What is the source for your contrasting beliefs. Please don't tell me it the same Forbes blogger that has been disproven on this site many times already. The profit and loss statements from MS should be the official source that people should be quoting. But of course some people just don't want believe this as it goes against there own agenda. Also I think you should get used to the idea that xbox is here to stay whether you like it or not. MS have committed to it and as you will note the recent competitive measures (and great turnaround numbers) being undertaking by them is testament to this. Also you need to remember that Sony only recently started making money on the gaming side of things thanks to the great success of PS4. You should consider that the Sony shareholders have been extremely patient. MS shareholders on the other hand are just raking it in with or without xbox. 

Just as well that wasn't the statement he made then. He said Xbox has been a financial disaster. Somewhat exaggerated but the essence of it is true. Across the 3 generations the net financial effect on Microsoft has been negative. That the devices division has been profitable is down to other products in that division. 360 was for sure profitable on an annual basis for MS for a few years, but not long enough to make up the losses before and after. Now MS is giving away 3rd party games as well as cutting the price of Xb one. No way Xb one is making MS any profit this year. But the losses will be hidden from the public because the division will make profit eslewhere.


Damn I edited my post just as you replied. That will make me look a little unconsidered ! Oh well in any case haven't the last few profit assessments attributed profit to Xbox live as well. And certainly how far back do we go to suggest that something wasn't profitable when these sums would have been written off. The last couple of years would be a fairer indicator as to how a product is travelling. And then if you say that the losses are being masked by the success of other devices and services, what proof do we have of this if it is being hidden from the public. I guess I can only go on what is revealed on the profit statements in the absence of anything more constructive.



Xbox 360 and Xbox One

Gamertag:  GamertagOz70

Captain_Tom said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Xbox got MS's foot in a new market but its uncertain if its been financially worthwhile. Hence, there is little incentive for Samsung, Apple, or Amazon to jump in the console war.

Samsung, Amazon, and Apple have the resources to compete but I don't think they're interested in that market. Very competitive and arguably not financially worth while. The PS4 is doing pretty damn good but still not making Sony profitable.

1) There is no if about it.  Xbox has been a financial disaster for MS.  All of the data is out there.

2) Whether the others have yet is not the point.  One of them (Or someone else) very well could make an awesome console family if MS left room for a new competitor.  This is all hypethetical of course, but here is what we do know:

-MS hasn't been successful

-Others could be

Let's find out!

If you look just at Xbox, it hasn't been financially worth while. However, it might have been a good vehicle to push other products and get more people interested in MS products. You can't measure that and I think that's the biggest motivator to keep the Xbox brand going.

Companies like Samsung, Amazon, or Apple wouldn't invest the resources MS did. Also, it would take a long time to develop a noteworthy 1st party line up unless they bought several big name studios. Hence, the odds of those companies wanting to seriously compete with Sony and Nintendo like MS has are low.

Hey, maybe other companies will have the opportunity to buy Xbox or Playstation if either MS and Sony gives up in that market. MS doesn't need to sell anything at the moment, they've made huge purchases in the past few years (Skype, Minecraft, etc). But we know Sony is hurting for money.



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for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

3sexty said:
Captain_Tom said:
Mr Puggsly said:

1) There is no if about it.  Xbox has been a financial disaster for MS.  All of the data is out there.

2) Whether the others have yet is not the point.  One of them (Or someone else) very well could make an awesome console family if MS left room for a new competitor.  This is all hypethetical of course, but here is what we do know:

-MS hasn't been successful

-Others could be

Let's find out!

I might be wrong here and please say so if I am but the tone of this post would suggest that you are dissappointed that Microsoft is still in the gaming business and that you want them to make an exit from gaming. I am interested to know why if this is your position. Also your statement that the gaming division is making disasterous losses is just false. The division has made a profit for the last 3 or so years and the statements from MS outline this. This is of course on top of the insanely huge profits the overall company is making and pales in comparison of course. What is the source for your contrasting beliefs. Please don't tell me it's  the same Forbes blogger that has been disproven on this site many times already. The profit and loss statements from MS should be the official source that people should be quoting. But of course some people just don't want believe this as it goes against there own agenda. Also I think we should get used to the idea that xbox is here to stay whether we like it or not. MS have committed to it and as you will note the recent competitive measures (and great turnaround numbers) being undertaking by them is testament to this. Also you need to remember that Sony only recently started making money on the gaming side of things thanks to the great success of PS4. You should consider that the Sony shareholders have been extremely patient. MS shareholders on the other hand are just raking it in with or without xbox. So basically the Xbox is really of miniscule effect to the enormous revenue machine that is MS. In contrast PlayStation is a welcomed recent profit maker which is of miniscule effect to the enormous loss making machine that is Sony.

Forgive me as I only read the first 3 sentences of your wall of text (Tone it down next time).  I don't want MS to leave gaming per se... What I want is for them to stop burning money in the Xbox pitt and focus on PC.  They could simply put their real first party exclusives on PC and bolster its catalog.  And yes it is a financial disaster:

http://www.neowin.net/news/report-microsofts-xbox-division-has-lost-nearly-3-billion-in-10-years

That graph doesn't even take into acount the 7 billion dollars in losses the first Xbox created.  Do you really think MS made up all that money from 2013-2014?  Not with how X1 is doing.

 

But not only are they wasting their own money, but they are constantly holding back gaming with their money hatting, consistantly inferior hardware, and archaic parity clauses.  If people want real competion in consoles they should want MS to exit.