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Forums - Politics Discussion - Putin starts sanctions against EU/USA

 

Russia starts sanctions against the West. Is it

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ArnoldRimmer said:
fighter said:
Sharu said:

Why? Do you consider sanctions TO Russia from EU/USA silly too?

those are actually effective, russia is about to enter a recession

That only makes sense if the actual desired "effect" is not really to influence a country's policies, but simply to hurt its economy.

While hurting a country's economy is easily achieved (russia's sanction will definitely also hurt the countries they are imposed upon), studies have found that only about 4% of economic sanctions actually help reaching the desired policy change they were said to have.

In other words, from the imposer's POV, economic sanctions are almost always ineffective, they usually just hurt a country's civil population.

 

the desired effect is

 

1/ to use economical coercition instead of military force

2/ to discourage russia from further damaging its' neighbours

 

a regime change would be dangerous, if that was indeed desired it would be very easy to snipe putin, the problem is that putin is probably better than what would replace him

 

throughout history russians have been very submissive to their leadership and are accustomed to suffer, i don't see any other country that is capable of enduring such a bad k/d ratio as the one they had in the eastern front  :

(for every german killed russia would lose 3 soldiers)

Date German forces Soviet forces
June 1941 3,767,000 (900,000 in the west) 2,680,000 (in theater) 5,500,000 (overall) (~700,000 in Far East[33])
June 1942 3,720,000 (80% in the East) 5,313,000 (~700,000 in Far East[33])
July 1943 3,933,000 (63% in the East) 6,724,000 (~700,000 in Far East[33])
June 1944 3,370,000 (62% in the East) 6,425,000 (~700,000 in Far East[33])
Jan. 1945 2,330,000 (60% in the East) 6,532,000 (Soviet build up in Far East accelerated greatly since February[33])
Apr 1945 1,960,000 6,410,000


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Well depends on how reliant the EU and USA are on Russia and vice versa. Russia is quite self sufficient so I think they won't have too many problems with sanctions. The EU on the other needs Russia's oil and gas resources I believe.



    

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UTKresh said:
fucking politicans. they have of course all their own intentions and reasons for their doings. The problem is, they never tell us. What they tell us are lies, lies and again lies. The truth is never told. Not to us.

the media is full of shit because of that.
if people had more brain, no-one would harm another country just because a fucking asshole says so.
probably the real problem with all those conflicts atm is humanity´s endless stupidity.

USA. Russia. EU. it doesn´t really matter which. there is no good or bad anymore. it´s only bad and bad alone.

Think about it. media manipulation aside, think about what you want and what you are given. Then you will realise how much they are all taking us for a fool.

sorry for my bad language, but imo anything else is inappropriate.


The less people know about how sausages and laws are made, the better they'll sleep.

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Sharu said:
Ka-pi96 said:


I consider the whole situation silly and just wish it would end and we could get back to normal again.

You can't turn the beef mince back into an alive cow. West started the Ukraine shit turning down Yanucovich literally illegal and for nothing. Then those stupid sanctions - now they get a feedback. Hopefully the situation will normalize more or less, but it will never be the same as 1 year ago.

 

All revolutions are illegal, lol

Ukraine have systematically overthrown their corrupt govts. They have their own aspirations and it just happens they prefer to partner with the west.

Russia cannot handle a democracy so close to it's borders, it would give russians "bad" ideas.



fighter said:

throughout history russians have been very submissive to their leadership and are accustomed to suffer, i don't see any other country that is capable of enduring such a bad k/d ratio as the one they had in the eastern front  :

(for every german killed russia would lose 3 soldiers)

Date German forces Soviet forces
June 1941 3,767,000 (900,000 in the west) 2,680,000 (in theater) 5,500,000 (overall) (~700,000 in Far East[33])
June 1942 3,720,000 (80% in the East) 5,313,000 (~700,000 in Far East[33])
July 1943 3,933,000 (63% in the East) 6,724,000 (~700,000 in Far East[33])
June 1944 3,370,000 (62% in the East) 6,425,000 (~700,000 in Far East[33])
Jan. 1945 2,330,000 (60% in the East) 6,532,000 (Soviet build up in Far East accelerated greatly since February[33])
Apr 1945 1,960,000 6,410,000

This is a bit offtopic. But this figures are cheaty.

Soldiers losses (deaths) for Russia in WW2 was 6,3 mln soldiers killed or dead because of military damage. 555 thous. dead from illnesses/accidents. 4.5 mln - who was taken by Germans and reported a missing person. 


Total losses of USSR in WW2 was 26.6 million people. Around 15 million people was killed by Germans on a nazi occupied territory.



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fighter said:

All revolutions are illegal, lol

Ukraine have systematically overthrown their corrupt govts. They have their own aspirations and it just happens they prefer to partner with the west.

Russia cannot handle a democracy so close to it's borders, it would give russians "bad" ideas.

Russia can not handle anything that isn't a mentally deranged dictator.



fighter said:

(for every german killed russia would lose 3 soldiers)

Since I flatter myself that I'm the person who actually knows the history of the given period, risking to derail the thread and knowing your blind bias I'm still going to ask -- may I have a link to source please? By source I mean statistical data that refer to war records or similar historical documents.



Poor Russians. They won't get their daily fix of Snøfrisk anymore. :(



Sharu said:
fighter said:

throughout history russians have been very submissive to their leadership and are accustomed to suffer, i don't see any other country that is capable of enduring such a bad k/d ratio as the one they had in the eastern front  :

(for every german killed russia would lose 3 soldiers)

Date German forces Soviet forces
June 1941 3,767,000 (900,000 in the west) 2,680,000 (in theater) 5,500,000 (overall) (~700,000 in Far East[33])
June 1942 3,720,000 (80% in the East) 5,313,000 (~700,000 in Far East[33])
July 1943 3,933,000 (63% in the East) 6,724,000 (~700,000 in Far East[33])
June 1944 3,370,000 (62% in the East) 6,425,000 (~700,000 in Far East[33])
Jan. 1945 2,330,000 (60% in the East) 6,532,000 (Soviet build up in Far East accelerated greatly since February[33])
Apr 1945 1,960,000 6,410,000

This is a bit offtopic. But this figures are cheaty.

Soldiers losses (deaths) for Russia in WW2 was 6,3 mln soldiers killed or dead because of military damage. 555 thous. dead from illnesses/accidents. 4.5 mln - who was taken by Germans and reported a missing person. 


Total losses of USSR in WW2 was 26.6 million people. Around 15 million people was killed by Germans on a nazi occupied territory.

those figures are not deaths but troops present :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)

 

Total german military losses : 4.3 M to 5.5 - 75 - 80 % in the eastern front = 3.22 to 4.4 : 

Total Russian military losses : 8.7 M to 13.85 M 



MoHasanie said:
Well depends on how reliant the EU and USA are on Russia and vice versa. Russia is quite self sufficient so I think they won't have too many problems with sanctions. The EU on the other needs Russia's oil and gas resources I believe.


Russia also need EU's money. They can't just suddenly shutoff its Gas to EU.. Well at least until they finish building that RUssia-China gas pipe. Currently, Russias biggest revenue comes from that EU-Russia gas deal.

Besides, that gas deal is the only thing that's making other countries in EU hesitant to impose a harsher sanction to Russia. If they suddenly cut off EUs gas. What's stopping EU+US complete isolation of Russia. It's like a guys killing his most important hostage.



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