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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Will Nintendo's next handheld and console use Power PC like the Wii U?

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

Backwards Compatibility is just a term that describes emulation of predecessors.

Emulation can range from running entire virtual operating systems to excuting simple predecessor instructions.

There are two types of emulation, software and hardware. Hardware emulation requires the actual components to be in the system, this means you can A) build the newer model using similar technology, which holds the system back if the architecture is too outdated or B) include the old architecture along with the new one, more expensive. Software emulation requires architecture that is alot stronger then hardware its emulating because it virtualizes the hardware in its own, and that virtual hardware runs the software. Typically, emulators run the whole OS, but well optimized emulators can run barebones and stripped OS. E.G, my phone can emulate some PSP games at native resolution and framerate despite only being maybe 5 times stronger.

Long story short, hardware emulation is the only viable online solution for emulation and subsequently BC, streaming can do the hardware emulation by running it on a more powerful server, but their is the issue of network dependency.


A lot of people mention ARM here. Can't the next console use ARM hardware to emulate the Wii U's hardware since the Wii U does use some ARM components? Then it wouldn't have to hold them back, right?



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It'll be the true final crossroads decision for them. PS4 and X1 demonstrate that nobody other than Nintendo wants anything other than x86 architecture to work in. At the same time, Nintendo is trying to build their own environment and will complicate that immensely if they suddenly pull a radical switchover midgame.

It's the last chance saloon for Nintendo and mainstream third party support, where they'll put all their chips on trying to follow the crowd or striking off on their own for good.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

spemanig said:

A lot of people mention ARM here. Can't the next console use ARM hardware to emulate the Wii U's hardware since the Wii U does use some ARM components? Then it wouldn't have to hold them back, right?

The issue is that it use a power pc CPU, the ARM components aren't essential for gaming and the GPU's more or less easy to substitute with another, but you can't emulate Power PC with ARM of the same spec, its a different instruction set.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
spemanig said:

A lot of people mention ARM here. Can't the next console use ARM hardware to emulate the Wii U's hardware since the Wii U does use some ARM components? Then it wouldn't have to hold them back, right?

The issue is that it use a power pc CPU, the ARM components aren't essential for gaming and the GPU's more or less easy to substitute with another, but you can't emulate Power PC with ARM of the same spec, its a different instruction set.

They can't put the old Wii U CPU in there strictly for BC and build the ARM console from there?



Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
spemanig said:
burninmylight said:

By anchor, I meant from a technological progression standpoint, not necessarily a consumer value standpoint. I agree with you about consoles losing a ton of value without BC.


I guess I can agree there, though I don't see why it's so difficult to keep BC while making beefy hardware at an affordable price.

Backwards Compatibility is just a term that describes emulation of predecessors.

Emulation can range from running entire virtual operating systems to excuting simple predecessor instructions.

There are two types of emulation, software and hardware. Hardware emulation requires the actual components to be in the system, this means you can A) build the newer model using similar technology, which holds the system back if the architecture is too outdated or B) include the old architecture along with the new one, more expensive. Software emulation requires architecture that is alot stronger then hardware its emulating because it virtualizes the hardware in its own, and that virtual hardware runs the software. Typically, emulators run the whole OS, but well optimized emulators can run barebones and stripped OS. E.G, my phone can emulate some PSP games at native resolution and framerate despite only being maybe 5 times stronger.

Long story short, hardware emulation is the only viable online solution for emulation and subsequently BC, streaming can do the hardware emulation by running it on a more powerful server, but their is the issue of network dependency.

Same thing I said, just sounds a lot better.



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spemanig said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
spemanig said:

A lot of people mention ARM here. Can't the next console use ARM hardware to emulate the Wii U's hardware since the Wii U does use some ARM components? Then it wouldn't have to hold them back, right?

The issue is that it use a power pc CPU, the ARM components aren't essential for gaming and the GPU's more or less easy to substitute with another, but you can't emulate Power PC with ARM of the same spec, its a different instruction set.

They can't put the old Wii U CPU in there strictly for BC and build the ARM console from there?

That was the issue with the Original PS3. It really depends on how cheap they can make the Wii U before the next console comes out, and it will run its CPU for Wii U games but it might not be price effective.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

That was the issue with the Original PS3. It really depends on how cheap they can make the Wii U before the next console comes out, and it will run its CPU for Wii U games but it might not be price effective.


Well considering how much of the Wii U's price comes from the gamepad, it may very well be possible to make it cheap enough, but who knows. But rebuilding their library again would be a huge issue in my opinion.



spemanig said:

So would it be possible for Nintendo to make an ARM console as powerful as the PS4 for $300 with backwards compatibility to the Wii U and/3DS eshop by winter 2016?


Sure depending on whatever gimmicks they bundle in.



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spemanig said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

The issue is that it use a power pc CPU, the ARM components aren't essential for gaming and the GPU's more or less easy to substitute with another, but you can't emulate Power PC with ARM of the same spec, its a different instruction set.

They can't put the old Wii U CPU in there strictly for BC and build the ARM console from there?


But being ARM and PowerPC both RISC processor architectures, couldn't there be a way to allow backwards compatility between both? And remmeber, failoverflow revlead that there's a software layer controlling CPU and GPU access and whatnot, so games aren't coded "to the metal". Maybe that could help compatibility.

As for the GPU, is Graphics Core Next backwards compatible with TeraScale?