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I think it is hilarious that videos like this can be shown but I cannot call someone a douchebag, lol.

Disclaimer: The word "douchebag" in the previous sentence was not directed at any individual person and/or group of persons.



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Kane1389 said:
Roma said:
NobleTeam360 said:
10+ years in Iraq and this is what is happening after we leave..... This makes me sick.

you guys are the reasin this is happening


This is in no way, shape or form the fault of the United States. 


Once again you make a statement that is the polar opposite of logic. This is 100% the fault of the United States. The US removed Saddam from power, failed to rebuild Iraq, then funded the ISIS terrorists in their war with the regime in Syria. Again, undeniably the fault of the United States.



Dude is right. I have been deployed twice, my first tour was to BIAP in Iraq. The United States and EU are the sole reasons these things are happening. This goes back to WWII when the EU and US stole half of Palestine and then gave it to the Christ killers.

Not just the Middle East, but we are responsible for doing this in practically every single region on the globe. Asia, all over South and Central America.

The thing about all of this that I find incredibly disturbing is how little history Americans and Europeans actually know. The United States is the epitome of corruption and placing heads of government to meet their (our) own needs.

Take some international politics and history classes, people... We may be the greatest country in the world but our government is NOT.



bouzane said:
Kane1389 said:


This is in no way, shape or form the fault of the United States. 


Once again you make a sement that is the polar opposite of what makes sense. This is 100% the fault of the United States. The US removed Saddam from power, failed to rebuild Iraq, then funded the ISIS terrorists in their war with the regime in Syria. Again, undeniably the fault of the United States.

I agree, it is the United States fault. I'm not going to defend the actions of our government. If we had just stayed out of Iraq none of this would be happening right now. Iraq wasn't even the country who attacked us on 9/11 the highjackers were freaking Saudi Arabian for crying out loud.

 

Disclaimer: When I say we I don't mean myself or your common American, we is just used to represent the United States government in short.



bouzane said:
Kane1389 said:


This is in no way, shape or form the fault of the United States. 


Once again you make a sement that is the polar opposite of what makes sense. This is 100% the fault of the United States. The US removed Saddam from power, failed to rebuild Iraq, then funded the ISIS terrorists in their war with the regime in Syria. Again, undeniably the fault of the United States.

The poor job of nationbuilding in Iraq is the big one, although to be fair to us Americans, Iraq is really a country that shouldn't exist as a cohesive political entity, but it was too tall of an order for the US and coalition allies to partition the country outright.

A stronger dose of federalization should have been the better idea; more local control for regional governments to help ease sectarian tensions.

Iraq is definitely better off without Saddam. It's not like the Iraqis themselves could have overthrown him peacefully (it's not a homogenous society like South Korea or Chile, who overthrew their dictators peacefully). It would have been just as bad as Syria had Saddam's downfall come endogenously.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Roma said:
Kane1389 said:


They are responsable for that, but they are not responsible for the killings the ISIS is comitting

if you remove something that is holding a country in balance or at least way better than it is today then you are the reason for what comes after it.

Gasing your own citizens is 'way' better?  Uday Hussein tortured Iraqi Olypmic athletes for a perceived lack of effort, even keeping scorecards as to whom should get what.  Sorry, but I disagree.  Democracy is as strong as what the people put into it, and when the army turns tail and runs, giving their weapons to an approaching enemy (smaller force, mind you), that's on the people and the army.  Not on the US.

Furthermore, if we had to point fingers at anyone, I'd start with religious moderates.  I love the whole 'this isn't islam' line, but...what are 'true' Islamic followers doing to stamp out the violence inflicted upon themselves and others, by the folks twisting the words of Islam?   We have the same problem in the US with Christianity/Catholicism.  Moderates say one thing, but won't lift a finger (largely) to do anything about the extremists.  Leaving the rest of the US or, in Islams case, the world to.  Which ends up with the whole 'religious persecution' complex that you see in the US and abroad.  War on Islam, War on Christianity etc...  Which makes it that much easier for the un-educated and illiterate to be recruited into killing in the name of whatever God they choose to believe in.



Mr Khan said:
bouzane said:
Kane1389 said:
 


This is in no way, shape or form the fault of the United States. 


Once again you make a sement that is the polar opposite of what makes sense. This is 100% the fault of the United States. The US removed Saddam from power, failed to rebuild Iraq, then funded the ISIS terrorists in their war with the regime in Syria. Again, undeniably the fault of the United States.

The poor job of nationbuilding in Iraq is the big one, although to be fair to us Americans, Iraq is really a country that shouldn't exist as a cohesive political entity, but it was too tall of an order for the US and coalition allies to partition the country outright.

A stronger dose of federalization should have been the better idea; more local control for regional governments to help ease sectarian tensions.

Iraq is definitely better off without Saddam. It's not like the Iraqis themselves could have overthrown him peacefully (it's not a homogenous society like South Korea or Chile, who overthrew their dictators peacefully). It would have been just as bad as Syria had Saddam's downfall come endogenously.


I can agree with everything you said except for the bolded. Under Saddam Iraq was a highly productive nation that enjoyed relatively good education, healthcare, infrastructure and a secular legal system. He may have been a statist (something I oppose) but it may have been a necessary evil as it prevented the spread of Islamofascism. My biggest gripe with Saddam was the warmongering and that's hardly an uncommon policy :(



Good opportunity for Iran to invade.

What will happen then I wonder.



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This is happening not because US removed Saddam. He had iron fist on the populace sure.
However, this is Sunni's wet dream in Iraq. They wanted revenge on the Shiias for what they've supposedly done to them after Saddam's removal.
Even with the dictator you think everything was roses? There were mass graves filled with executed Shiias, Kurds and other insurrectionists. What is happening, has been boiling in ISIS and other people head for decades or centuries.

I'm not saying US is not to blame also. They're just not the sole cause.

The US problem is that they listen to those back stabbing Saudi oil magnates and they have to act. US is like a crack addict.

ISIS were not the only ones fighting Assad in Syria. There are rebels fighting in Syria's national interest and I believe those were the intended recipient of the US aid. Additionally, I remember when US was reluctant to send aid to rebels in Syria, everybody was criticizing the government saying that the reason for inaction was no profit to be had there.



LiquorandGunFun said:

You think it was up to one man to decide the fate of the troops in Iraq?

Maliki didn't want US troops there that your King Bush put there to avenge his dad's failure.

Obama had many misteps, but pulling troops out of a zone that nobody wanted us there is NOT one.

There was nothing else to be done in Iraq and the cost of operating numerous bases and boots on the ground is not something a weak economy can afford. But I'm pretty sure you give rats ass about our economy.