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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How the Wii U could make a comeback

ikki5 on 26 July 2014
McDonaldsGuy said:
ikki5 said:

I hate to say it but until Nintendo gets out of the dark ages and stops with all the insane and stupid restrictions of stuff, babying everything and so much more, they are going to have a hard time bouncing back.


I just can't believe some of their decisions this gen. No hard drive, crappy (but at least free) online, hatred of third parties, the lack of power but still a high price, the Gamepad which isn't good for local multiplayer (even though Nintendo emphasizes it) and is never taken advantage of, no achievements (in 2014), Zelda's new art style, Mario 3D World instead of full fledged 3D HD Mario.... I mean it's like Nintendo WANTS the Wii U to fail.

And before I get accused of being a Nintendo hater: the Wii was my favorite system last generation.


well, I don't mind the new art style of Zelda nor do I mind 3D world. I enjoyed 3D world and I still do but what I don't understand is how much they censor yet if you wanted to, you can look up porn... same thing goes with their account system, decisions and reasonings. perfect example is twitch.tv. They claim that watching people play games isn't fun yet they have their own channel and show people playing games. But yeah, the gamepad thing annoys me too. They said at some point we will get to use two gamepads and we still don't have that. At E3, I staw two gampads on the table in the tree house event and I was hoping for something. The VC is also atrocious. They said they'd imrove it and yet... we are still waiting for that. So yeah, overall, there is a lot of stuff lacking.



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Slarvax on 26 July 2014

The Wii was succesful because it appealed to a new audience, and the constant great releases by Nintendo. The DS was the same.
The 3DS was failing because it was expensive and it didn't launch with any system sellers. It made a comeback because the price cut made it more appealing, and the release of MK7 and 3D Land backed it up. Nintendo was kinda lucky.
The Wii U is failing because of 2013. The launch was fine, not many system sellers, but a ton of games. Comes 2013, and the only games released in the first 7 Fucking months were a Lego game and a Monster Hunter remaster. Since then, there is no hope for the Wii U.
Female gamers are not related to any of it. Unless it's like AC or the Wii, which appeal to casual gamers, by coincidence, the majority of them are female.



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Dr.Henry_Killinger on 26 July 2014
McDonaldsGuy said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

Amiibos i don't see the potential in, but it could explode, id give it 20 80
As for your analysis, I say your reasoning is a bit faulty, because the correlations of the demographics of the Wii's base is more of an effect than a cause.
The reason so many female gamers signed up with it was because the Wii was popular and had widespread appeal. And depending on that "Mainstream" audience is hazardous if not fatal.
As for where handheld and mobile are going with the "Mainstream", I doubt they are coming back.

The best and most realistic way for the Wii U to make a comeback, is to bolster its exclusive library, so much so that people are actually missing out on many types of games by not having a Nintendo system.
Leave the 3DS alone, and get an exclusive KH, MH, Pokemon, FPS, etc to appeal to a wider audience, the 2015 lineup is a good start, but they need to use that Money to build up more studios. If they can outproduce EA in quantity, since they already do so in quality, then PC, PS4, and XB1 owners would be hardpressed not to get a Wii U in addition.


I disagree and I'll explain why. The 3DS' comeback was helped by appealing more to the female userbase. They came back. Not as much as with the DS and Wii, but they did.

The Wii appealed to women because of the type of games it had - namely, Wii Sports and Wii Fit. Wii U will never reach the heights with female gamers the Wii did, but Nintendo can try and tap into that userbase.

Nintendo games don't have the popularity they used to. Which is why I think while Nintendo does need to bolster its exclusive library, it has to expand its market again as well. Heck exclusives don't even sell consoles anymore really. 

Problem with that is the demographic your describing is wayyyy too broad. Even the typical targetted gaming demographic is generally 15-35 YA males.

Here is some good info

sauce: http://blog.apptopia.com/game-demographics-that-every-developer-should-know/



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Dusk on 26 July 2014
McDonaldsGuy said:

The Wii did something no other console was able to do before: attract female (I will use "female" as it's easier to type than women and girls) gamers by the millions. Although this is old data, 80% of console gamers last generation were Wii owners. This was before the Kinect, but I doubt this percentage changed much. About 8-10% of PS3 and 360 players were female, while 30% of Wii players were female. Once again, these stats are pre-Kinect, which did attract many non-gamers but probably not enough to be really significant (at the most, 15% of 360 gamers).

The DS is the same way, but surprisingly, the 3DS is also the same. One of the reasons the 3DS has made such a comeback was because it attracted female gamers. 31% of 3DS owners are female.  This is evidence that even though mobile games have taken a lot of this demographic, there is still a lot of them who would buy a dedicated gaming system.Animal Crossing: New Leaf, for example, is a HUGE hit with girls - 56% of players are girls. Look up Let's Plays or Unboxing of it on YouTube and many are girls.

If I was the head of the Wii U right now my strategy would change entirely. Male gamers have pretty much rejected the Wii U - it's selling worse than even the Dreamcast did during the same time frame (and the DC was Japan-only for almost a year). Their big franchises aren't doing what they should be doing - selling units. Super Mario 3D World was rejected for looking just like the 3DS game (and rightfully so - with the new HD consoles we should've got something amazing like Mario 64 2 or a Galaxy game at least), the new Zelda art style is once again going to fracture the fanbase, and too few first party titles being released anyway. Donkey Kong Country: TF failed to even register on the radar as well as Pikmin 3. Mario Kart 8 was a little spike but not good enough. I doubt Smash Bros. is gonna do much as well.

So Nintendo should change focus, and try and get female gamers now. The GamePad is actually GREAT for those type of games. Popular games for girls on the 3DS include Disney Magic World, Animal Crossing, Tomadachi Life, Style Savvy, Professor Layton, Nintendogs, Cooking Mama, Imagine series, and then Nintendo could add dance games, fitness games, etc. etc. A lot of these games would be perfect for the GamePad as well, so it could be a major selling point.

The Wii U - like the 3DS - could then make a comeback and start selling more.

And hell if that doesn't work then just do a Pokemon RPG. The Amiibos make NO sense to me... because what are they used for? In Smash Bros., why would I need one? On the other hand, Amiibo Pokemon would be HUGE. And it makes sense (Gotta collect them all!). A Pokemon RPG with amiibos could save the Wii U no doubt. Also, Nintendo should have Retro Studios make the next big FPS game! Nintendo used to be known for being the first person shooter console (Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Turok, Doom 64, Quake 64, etc. etc.) and Retro Studios can obviously make a good first person shooter... so why not have them make a killer app to compete with Destiny, Titanfall, Halo, Gears, etc. etc.?

What do you guys think? What would YOU do if your job was to make sure the Wii U could make a comeback?

TL;DR Version: Females were able to help foster the 3DS comeback, and they can do the same for the Wii U

I think it has already started to make a come back. Maybe this should be a poll post :D



Gotta figure out how to set these up lol.

McDonaldsGuy on 27 July 2014
padib said:

Good OP but there are a lot of contradictions, or at least seeming contradictions.

If you are pushing for Nintendo to attract a female audience, why in the same OP are you asking they make an FPS?

If you think the Zelda fanbase will be fractured due to a cartoon link, is it because it appeals less to men? Then in that case it should support your overall goal (to attract female players).

Amiibos are useful in the Smash world because 1) They are collectible, much like Smash trophies so it makes sense and 2) They will contain evolution data and will turn Smash into an RPG of sorts for those who have amiibos.

Other than that I completely agree, Nintendo should release Animal Crossing and Pokemon on the U, I have no idea why that is not happening yet. Everything points to Nintendo wanting to replicate the portable success on their home console, so where the hell is pokemon and AC, where are the games that girls like??

Well they should attrack female audiences, but shouldn't ignore the male ones. Yes, males have largely rejected the Wii U BUT they make up 80-90% of the console userbase.

They should make a push towards the female audience, but don't ignore the main people of the industry. Kind of like what the Wii did. The Wii made a HUGE push for non-gamers (and was successful), but they didn't ignore gamers. They still released Mario Galaxy, Zelda, Smash Bros., Metroid Prime 3, etc. etc.

Nintendo was once known for first person shooters. The N64 had great ones such as Goldeneye, Turok, and Perfect Dark. So it wouldn't be too unusual if they commissioned a FPS to compete with Destiny, Halo, Gears of War, Titanfall, etc. etc. I think Retro Studios would be the perfect studio to do that.

It may seem like in my original post I would totally ignore male gamers, what I meant was to start pushing towards attracting female gamers (but not ignoring male ones). 

The Zelda art style has fractured the fanbase, no doubt. Many people won't bother with the new Zelda because of the art style. Right now, the Wii U needs all the sales it can get. Nintendo can't risk it with their silly little art styles. It needs EVERYONE they can get on board, but cartoonish Zeldas tend not to be as popular as "realistic" ones.

See i don't even know what you're talking about with Smash and Amiibos. I see no reason to even bother with them, and I can't see them selling well. Nintendo is doing it all wrong... and what's so funny is that they have the ULTIMATE NFC Figure franchise: Pokemon. But as I said earlier, if it makes money and can become super popular, Nintendo wants nothing to do with it. Nintendo this gen HATES money and fame.

Yeah the Wii U has been a disaster so far. I don't even know if it can be righted now honestly. My suggestions are like last effort suggestions. To basically try to expand the userbase, rather than keep doing what's not working. Nintendo consoles are popular with girls too. Most YouTube girl gamers I see like Nintendo, and it's the same in real life (not saying ALL girls prefer Nintendo, not even close!). If one console maker can succeed in that demographic, it's Nintendo. But Nintendo for whatever reason has focused NOTHING on them. It shocks me.

Their excuse for no Pokemon console RPGs is not to eat in the sales of the handhelds, but I don't know if that is true. I think they could co-exist, and with Pokemon Amiibos, they could really break out and the Wii U would sell a ton.

To be honest if I was running Nintendo I would do the unthinkable and can the Wii U and release a new console by 2015. 



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DerpSandwich on 27 July 2014

I disagree. While I think it's great to appeal to multiple demographics, the better course of action (if they only had to pick one, which of course they don't), would be providing the experiences we've been wanting. I agree with what you said about SM3DW looking just like a handheld game, etc. It's a powerful system that simply hasn't been used in the way you would expect it to be used. Giving us big fat experiences rather than games we could be playing on our 3DS's is the most important at this point. A big Mario adventure, an amazing Metroid, any number of things we've gotten in the past but we just aren't getting now.

And while in a way I've got to applaud Nintendo for doing what they want, you're right that the new Zelda will split up the fans. This was not the right time to take that artistic liberty. They need to sell units more than anything at this point. Make the "realistic" Zelda everyone wants, THEN get all artsy and original when you've got the install base.



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Cobretti2 on 27 July 2014

the only way they will come back is if they give it away for free.



 

 

McDonaldsGuy on 27 July 2014
DerpSandwich said:
I disagree. While I think it's great to appeal to multiple demographics, the better course of action (if they only had to pick one, which of course they don't), would be providing the experiences we've been wanting. I agree with what you said about SM3DW looking just like a handheld game, etc. It's a powerful system that simply hasn't been used in the way you would expect it to be used. Giving us big fat experiences rather than games we could be playing on our 3DS's is the most important at this point. A big Mario adventure, an amazing Metroid, any number of things we've gotten in the past but we just aren't getting now.

And while in a way I've got to applaud Nintendo for doing what they want, you're right that the new Zelda will split up the fans. This was not the right time to take that artistic liberty. They need to sell units more than anything at this point. Make the "realistic" Zelda everyone wants, THEN get all artsy and original when you've got the install base.


I don't agree with that approach per se, mainly because it's the GameCube approach. Nintendo franchises aren't as popular as they used to be even 5 years ago, so it's a tough sell. I think if we got a Super Mario 128 instead of a 3D World it would have helped, but not a TON. Maybe 9 million sales by now.

Nintendo should still give us the big Mario adventure, Metroid, etc. etc. but it needs to expand its userbase too like with the Wii. Hardcore gamers always bash Nintendo for "abandoning them" but it was the hardcore gamers that abandoned Nintendo in the first place.

So while Nintendo SHOULD of course start releasing its killer apps soon and now, it's not enough to truly mount a comeback. It needs to do more.

Exactly about Zelda as well. It's like Nintendo has no clue what they're doing. The Wii was a hit with hardcore gamers because of Twilight Princess at launch. Wii Sports was the killer app for non-gamers (and even gamers really), but it was Twilight Princess that sold hardcore gamers on the Wii. And a HUGE reason for that is the art style.

Remember the E3 2004 reaction? Still gives me goosebumps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE2Dc1sx71U

Nintendo needs to bring that back.



AZWification on 27 July 2014

The only way I could see a WiiU make a comeback is if Splatoon and/or Amiibos become extremely successful... That's it!



                
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McDonaldsGuy on 27 July 2014
AZWification said:

The only way I could see a WiiU make a comeback is if Splatoon and/or Amiibos become extremely successful... That's it!


No other way? No other demographics Nintendo can try and court? It's Amiibos/Splatoon or bust? I don't know, Splatoon itself seems VERY niche in the first place. And the Amiibos are doing it wrong (Pokemon Amiibos!!!). They can't just keep doing the same thing... they have to change in strategy. It's so weird that the Wii U's strategy is the complete opposite of the Wii's strategy:

- The Wii's strategy was to get new gamers to play, like old people and women
- The Wii U is Nintendo's attempt to get back hardcore gamers

- The Wii's strategy was simplicity, and ease of use. Just pick up the controller and start bowling!
- The GamePad is huge, hard to understand, clunky, and has no real benefit for most games.

- The Wii's strategy was to get people to play local multiplayer. Together in a room
- Only one Gamepad per game for the Wii U

The Wii U did copy the Wii in all the bad parts though - less powerful console than the competition, barebones online, the name, lack of hard drive, etc. etc.

There was no way the Wii U was gonna be successful but Nintendo still has a chance to foster some kind of comeback, by going after the people that bought the Wii.