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Wii U beating Xbox One even after price drop! What happened to the 360 fans?

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Wii U beating Xbox One even after price drop! What happened to the 360 fans?

S.T.A.G.E. said:

No. I am not misusing facts. The Wii was a paper weight where most people enjoyed Wii Sports and then threw it away. Even during the years of its high sales it still recorded lower usage than consoles who sold half of what it sold or in other cases wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy less. As I said before, gamers seemed to have recieved more usage from the Gamecube. That is sad. Even Guitar Hero demanded more skill and had tournaments compared to a lot of the casual games on the Wii. 

The PS2 had a stronger library from a more diverse group of developers who werent looking at the console as a quick cash grab. This is why you see so many cash grab games on the Wii in the first place. The intent wasnt exactly there to build a library off of quality because non-gamers and little kids wouldnt know the difference.

Offer facts, not opinions. The Wii had guitar hero, and your usage argument was debunked above. The PS2 may have had a stronger library, but part of its library strongly resembles the Wii's. Even if the Wii ended up being a cash grab for many of those games, they were also cash-grabs on the PS2. Non-gamers and kids existed as consumers of the PS2, you can't argue otherwise.



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padib said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
padib said:

It's definitely an interesting analysis but the part I argued you didn't address. What happens to the regional discrepancies, they poke big holes in your theory.

Just analyze US for example.


You didnt find any holes in my theory. I agreed with you that MS took a chunk out of the N64's marketshare, but you still got the numbers wrong and it had nothing to do with Rare. Rare was purchased by MS a year after Halo came out and Rare had completed their final game for Nintendo in the same year of the purchase. When the Stamper Brothers left Rare they left the name and the IP's but the heart and soul of Rare was truly gone and the key developers in Rare who created Goldeneye left to Free Radical which is why Timesplitters plays so close to Goldeneye. Of course once Halo came out people werent really impressed, but the GC and PS2 at least had  decent shooter. If MS had an ounce of creativity Rare would still be a thriving company today, but no...they are second rate now. No direction at all. 

As for these points...

"Related is the fact that the sales for the twins in the US exceeded by far the sales of the PS2:

PosPlatformNorth AmericaEuropeJapanRest of WorldGlobal
1 PlayStation 2 (PS2) 53.65 55.28 23.18 25.57 157.68
6 PlayStation 3 (PS3) 28.56 32.98 10.05 11.39 82.98
7 Xbox 360 (X360) 47.25 25.23 1.66 8.45 82.59

twins total in US = 76M vs 53.65M for PS2."

1) You never read what I wrote properly. I attributed almost half of Sony's marketshare loss to Microsoft since the numbers came up to that. The last bit went to the Nintendo Wii.

2) Japan's interest in the console market is dwindling. They are mainly focused on handhelds

 

As for this...

"Another thing, the latest argument for TLOU:R is that many PS4 fans don't own PS3s. If that's true, then it seems like there is a lot more movement than we like to think. Some start gaming, some stop, we really have no idea what happens to owners between gens."

That is true for any console. Only a portion of the crowd buys the exclusives. Rarely is it ever at extremely high percentages attached to console sales like the Wii Sports bundles. Wii Sports was the game every non-gamer and their grandmother wanted to play.

It still doesn't explain the regional numbers in light of your theory. In US:

How does half of PS2 (53.65M / 2 =~ 27M) become 47.25M (Microsoft's marketshare in US)?


I never said that. I wasn't talking about regional numbers either, but rather worldwide. I'm not cutting corners, but rather looking at the bottom line. Everyone knows MS does well in America.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
padib said:

It still doesn't explain the regional numbers in light of your theory. In US:

How does half of PS2 (53.65M / 2 =~ 27M) become 47.25M (Microsoft's marketshare in US)?


I never said that. I wasn't talking about regional numbers either, but rather worldwide.

I know you never said that, but the facts exist, and our theories need to take into account those facts, not the other way around.



padib said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


I never said that. I wasn't talking about regional numbers either, but rather worldwide.

I know you never said that, but the facts exist, and our theories need to take into account those facts, not the other way around.


Look at the third generation change of the Xbox 360 sales and the paragraph I wrote beneath it during my quick study of all three gens. You will find the answer there. Sony lost well over 70 million games and over 50 million of them went to Microsoft.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
padib said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


I never said that. I wasn't talking about regional numbers either, but rather worldwide.

I know you never said that, but the facts exist, and our theories need to take into account those facts, not the other way around.


Look at the third generation change of the Xbox 360 sales and the paragraph I wrote beneath it during my quick study of all three gens. You will find the answer there. Sony lost well over 70 million games and over 50 million of them went to Microsoft.

I read it and I'm telling you it doesn't fit with the regional sales story. Take a minute to understand my counter-point instead of constantly returning to the global sales.

Why should you stop returning to it? Because I understand the global sales story you gave, and I called it interesting. If the regional sales didn't exist I would have agreed with you, but the regional sales tell a whole different story.

Japan loses PS2 support to Wii, not to MS, US wins many gamers to Xbox (so it isn't just PS2's marketshare transferring there are new users wanting Xbox) and so on.



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padib said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

No. I am not misusing facts. The Wii was a paper weight where most people enjoyed Wii Sports and then threw it away. Even during the years of its high sales it still recorded lower usage than consoles who sold half of what it sold or in other cases wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy less. As I said before, gamers seemed to have recieved more usage from the Gamecube. That is sad. Even Guitar Hero demanded more skill and had tournaments compared to a lot of the casual games on the Wii. 

The PS2 had a stronger library from a more diverse group of developers who werent looking at the console as a quick cash grab. This is why you see so many cash grab games on the Wii in the first place. The intent wasnt exactly there to build a library off of quality because non-gamers and little kids wouldnt know the difference.

Offer facts, not opinions. The Wii had guitar hero, and your usage argument was debunked above. The PS2 may have had a stronger library, but part of its library strongly resembles the Wii's. Even if the Wii ended up being a cash grab for many of those games, they were also cash-grabs on the PS2. Non-gamers and kids existed as consumers of the PS2, you can't argue otherwise.

When I offers facts you still argue them because you believe what you want to believe. Guitar Hero was mostly played on the PS2 all the way back to when it first became big. It grew off of the back of the Playstation 2 and the gen after when it was huge it spread to the Wii, Xbox 360 and PS3. It was all PS2 the gen before.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
padib said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

No. I am not misusing facts. The Wii was a paper weight where most people enjoyed Wii Sports and then threw it away. Even during the years of its high sales it still recorded lower usage than consoles who sold half of what it sold or in other cases wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy less. As I said before, gamers seemed to have recieved more usage from the Gamecube. That is sad. Even Guitar Hero demanded more skill and had tournaments compared to a lot of the casual games on the Wii. 

The PS2 had a stronger library from a more diverse group of developers who werent looking at the console as a quick cash grab. This is why you see so many cash grab games on the Wii in the first place. The intent wasnt exactly there to build a library off of quality because non-gamers and little kids wouldnt know the difference.

Offer facts, not opinions. The Wii had guitar hero, and your usage argument was debunked above. The PS2 may have had a stronger library, but part of its library strongly resembles the Wii's. Even if the Wii ended up being a cash grab for many of those games, they were also cash-grabs on the PS2. Non-gamers and kids existed as consumers of the PS2, you can't argue otherwise.

When I offers facts you still argue them because you believe what you want to believe. Guitar Hero was mostly played on the PS2 all the way back to when it first became big. It grew off of the back of the Playstation 2 and the gen after when it was huge it spread to the Wii, Xbox 360 and PS3. It was all PS2 the gen before.

That doesn't disprove my point though, rather it supports it.

I don't deny facts S.T.A.G.E.



Y'all should agree to disagree now, IMHO the truth is somewhere in the middle there. Yes, there have always been casual gamers, yes, the Wii had more casual gamers (or weirder, non gamers buying one as a workout machine). Anyway, one might say that a bit of the xb1s failure can be traced to most games being just fine on the 360. Of course the same is true of ps3, but Sony has managed to convince a hugely larger % globally to go ps4 early. Everything spells trouble for xb1 though, the install base race makes things massively easier on the 1st place entrant, even more so when it has a reputation for the best hardware/multiplats.



padib said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
jlmurph2 said:
If that's the case, what happened to the Wii fans? Xbox One is 1 year behind Wii U and less than 2 million behind. I think it goes both ways.


The majority of the Wii fans who jumped on the gaming bandwagon were not actual gamers. They were just enjoying the fad.

The thing you don't realize is that a lot of people who enjoyed games on the Wii enjoyed similar games on the PS2.

For some reason you prefer to ignore that and just brush off the Wii as a fad.

It's pure bias. There's nothing logical about your view on the Wii.

If the Wii wasnt a fad then why hasn't the Wii U sold? Its an upgraded Wii! That should be at least 10m for the first year right?? But no, Wii U sold 4m in 12 months. Abysmal sales compared to the Wii and it's competition. 



The motion controls of the Wii did lead to a lot of shovelware for the system where devs made some half arsed games and tried to market them to casuals who had no idea what they were buying. However to call the entire Wii console a fad that became a paperweight as people in this thread have is doing the console a huge disservice. There were some AMAZING gaming experiences on Wii, both with motion controls and traditional controllers and core gamers were well looked after IMO...