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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - No 1080p on Xbox One Due To Memory Bandwidth/ESRAM/RAM

jnemesh on 07 July 2014
cpg716 said:
jnemesh said:
Puppyroach said:
Yet several games hs reached it, like Forza 5, Killer Instinct and the upcoming MCC for example. I Think is is mainly due to laziness, incompetence or design choice when they do not reach/aim for 1080p/60fps. Also, we see in games like Ryse, that resolution is only part of what make a game gorgeus since that game is, in my view, the best looking game out there, coming in at 900p/30fps.


Sorry, but Halo 2 is not going to be 1080p, 343 has already confirmed that they are having issues reaching that resolution due to rendering the game twice at the same time to switch between "classic" graphics, and the enhanced version on the fly.

Sorry.. But you are not telling the whole story here.. The multiplayer Halo 2 will be 1080p/60FPS. What 343 said..  (did not CONFIRM anything) was this:

 “There’s a chance that [Halo 2] Anniversary campaign could run at a different resolution to accommodate the second frame buffer. But the intent is to overcome that hurdle.” 

So there comment was they intend to "overcome" the hurlde. But again. This only was concerning the campaign which will run in 2 different graphics engies to offer CLASSIC and Next Gen graphics. So saying "Halo 2 will not be 1080p" is incorrect at most, and not the whole truth at the very least. 

Congratulations...half of your 10 year old game can run at modern resolutions.  Have a cookie.

None of this really matters in the larger context of my post.  Try reading the rest of it.



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vivster on 07 July 2014
shikamaru317 said:
vivster said:
Actually I thought it was confirmed that 32mb are enough for 1080p.

It was enough for Turn 10 and Crytek, who pulled off 1080p in Forza 5 and Ryse (Crytek later downgraded to 900p because they thought the game would look better with other graphical improvements), not to mention a few other smaller developers. Some developers have claimed that it's not enough, but a programmer from Crytek called them out and told other developers how to use the ESRAM efficiently. Supposedly the latest SDK enabled tiled resources finally, which allows developers to fit more onto the ESRAM, so we should see 1080p in more games in the future.

The real problem is the GPU though. It's completely right that technically the ESRAM isn't the bottleneck, but the GPU is, which is why they had to downscale the resolution for Ryse.

That's why I don't think we will see a lot of 1080p on X1. At least not with ever improving visuals..



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

papamudd on 07 July 2014

it's better to have a stable game with great gameplay than a shoddy game with 1080p and unstable framerates



Talal said:
I will permaban myself if the game releases in 2014.

in reference to KH3 release date

Dark_Feanor on 07 July 2014
dangerguy said:
Forza, Destiny?

For you young people that have clearly not been around for decades like me, throughout history, when consoles launch, it always takes developers a couple years to "crack" them or tap the true potential of the console. This is why early gen games don't look as good as games that launch later in the generation. This is why Skyrim looks and plays better on consoles than Oblivion does. This is why Bioshock Infinite look better than Bioshock.

It's coincidentally reversed this generation. Last gen PS3's cell processor was awesome, but it was very difficult to develop on. It took developers a couple years to master it. Now it's reversed and Xbox One has a more complicated architecture.

Wolfenstein TNW, and suposely Battlefield HL for multplat? 

And Halo CE, Halo 3 and Halo 4 will run at 1080p/60...

It appears that developers didn´t take years to master the XOne, but only a few months that people are aready 'tin-foil-hating' MS forcing developers to visual parity. 



Garland on 07 July 2014
Dark_Feanor said:
dangerguy said:
Forza, Destiny?

For you young people that have clearly not been around for decades like me, throughout history, when consoles launch, it always takes developers a couple years to "crack" them or tap the true potential of the console. This is why early gen games don't look as good as games that launch later in the generation. This is why Skyrim looks and plays better on consoles than Oblivion does. This is why Bioshock Infinite look better than Bioshock.

It's coincidentally reversed this generation. Last gen PS3's cell processor was awesome, but it was very difficult to develop on. It took developers a couple years to master it. Now it's reversed and Xbox One has a more complicated architecture.

Wolfenstein TNW, and suposely Battlefield HL for multplat? 

And Halo CE, Halo 3 and Halo 4 will run at 1080p/60...

It appears that developers didn´t take years to master the XOne, but only a few months that people are already 'tin-foil-hating' MS forcing developers to visual parity. 

Microsoft can't easily do that because it's illegal for them to do so. They're in no position to demand anything of the sort, especially when that PS4 has a bigger install base than Xbox One does, which doesn't help matters any.

Even if so, 3rd party publishers will just make their future games PS4 exclusive, just like most indie developers are skipping Xbox One with their games right now due to Microsoft's dumb "launch parity" issue.



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torok on 07 July 2014
eva01beserk said:
Being 1080p is not everything. A game can look great without being 1080p, just look at nintendo. The only problem here is that its multyplats, its going to be the same game but at a higher resolution so its undeniably better. MS needs to come up with exclusives instead of trying to catch up with sony in multyplats visual.


I think 1080p is really important. If you play console ports on a PC, without any graphical flare added, just being in 1080p is much better. 720p games have a blurry and aliased look no matter how much AA you put in there. 1080p games without AA look much crisper in comparison. Upscaling simply destroys image quality and adds aliasing. I myself tested it this week putting a PC game in 720p instead of the regular 1080p, keeping the visual settings (it was Crysis 3 with MSAA) and it simply looked like crap that way. Even the possibility of adding effects or improving visuals isn't good enough because 720p destroys the image quality more than any other thing.

Despite that, X1 problems with 1080p are caused mainly by its less than mature SDK. It won't reach parity with PS4 because it's weaker, but I believe that next year we will see both pushing 1080p with the PS4 version having only some visual effects added, or better AA or higher FPS. If games keep coming at this resolution then we can start wondering if MS didn't made a mistake with hardware choices, but I don't think it is the case.



Bet with jetforcejiminy: PS4 will pass the Wii lifetime numbers.

cpg716 on 07 July 2014
jnemesh said:
cpg716 said:
jnemesh said:
Puppyroach said:
Yet several games hs reached it, like Forza 5, Killer Instinct and the upcoming MCC for example. I Think is is mainly due to laziness, incompetence or design choice when they do not reach/aim for 1080p/60fps. Also, we see in games like Ryse, that resolution is only part of what make a game gorgeus since that game is, in my view, the best looking game out there, coming in at 900p/30fps.


Sorry, but Halo 2 is not going to be 1080p, 343 has already confirmed that they are having issues reaching that resolution due to rendering the game twice at the same time to switch between "classic" graphics, and the enhanced version on the fly.

Sorry.. But you are not telling the whole story here.. The multiplayer Halo 2 will be 1080p/60FPS. What 343 said..  (did not CONFIRM anything) was this:

 “There’s a chance that [Halo 2] Anniversary campaign could run at a different resolution to accommodate the second frame buffer. But the intent is to overcome that hurdle.” 

So there comment was they intend to "overcome" the hurlde. But again. This only was concerning the campaign which will run in 2 different graphics engies to offer CLASSIC and Next Gen graphics. So saying "Halo 2 will not be 1080p" is incorrect at most, and not the whole truth at the very least. 

Congratulations...half of your 10 year old game can run at modern resolutions.  Have a cookie.

None of this really matters in the larger context of my post.  Try reading the rest of it.

Sorry. Cant read the rest as again you keep saying half truths.  Its not just a 10 year old game running at modern resolutions. The game will be running 2 seperate graphics engines, will be doing in essense "emulating" the Xbox 360 version of Halo 2 and doing a "next-gen" version. Emulating a X360 version (yes I know its not doing this in the truest terms) is very CPU/GPU intesntive. The Multiplayer version will be 1080p/60FPS (where it matters most in reality) and mostly likely SO will the NEXT-GEN version of Halo 2's campagin. As the developer said that is what they are working towards. 



XBLive: cpg716     PSN ID: cpg716  Steam: Luv4Tech77

Predictions on 12/01/15 - Generation 8 Totals:

PS4: 85-95m
X1: 55-65m
WiiU: 20-30m

eva01beserk on 07 July 2014
torok said:
eva01beserk said:
Being 1080p is not everything. A game can look great without being 1080p, just look at nintendo. The only problem here is that its multyplats, its going to be the same game but at a higher resolution so its undeniably better. MS needs to come up with exclusives instead of trying to catch up with sony in multyplats visual.


I think 1080p is really important. If you play console ports on a PC, without any graphical flare added, just being in 1080p is much better. 720p games have a blurry and aliased look no matter how much AA you put in there. 1080p games without AA look much crisper in comparison. Upscaling simply destroys image quality and adds aliasing. I myself tested it this week putting a PC game in 720p instead of the regular 1080p, keeping the visual settings (it was Crysis 3 with MSAA) and it simply looked like crap that way. Even the possibility of adding effects or improving visuals isn't good enough because 720p destroys the image quality more than any other thing.

Despite that, X1 problems with 1080p are caused mainly by its less than mature SDK. It won't reach parity with PS4 because it's weaker, but I believe that next year we will see both pushing 1080p with the PS4 version having only some visual effects added, or better AA or higher FPS. If games keep coming at this resolution then we can start wondering if MS didn't made a mistake with hardware choices, but I don't think it is the case.

1080p is important, but to say that a game looks like crap just cuz is not 1080p is very close minded. Like I said before, look at the wiiu, by choosing clever art styles nintendo can push the boundrys of visuals without having to pump out extreme resolutions. 

And I agree with you that 1080p60hz will be nothing by next year, the only variables will be added effects and added elements.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

walsufnir on 07 July 2014
jnemesh said:
cpg716 said:
jnemesh said:
Puppyroach said:
Yet several games hs reached it, like Forza 5, Killer Instinct and the upcoming MCC for example. I Think is is mainly due to laziness, incompetence or design choice when they do not reach/aim for 1080p/60fps. Also, we see in games like Ryse, that resolution is only part of what make a game gorgeus since that game is, in my view, the best looking game out there, coming in at 900p/30fps.


Sorry, but Halo 2 is not going to be 1080p, 343 has already confirmed that they are having issues reaching that resolution due to rendering the game twice at the same time to switch between "classic" graphics, and the enhanced version on the fly.

Sorry.. But you are not telling the whole story here.. The multiplayer Halo 2 will be 1080p/60FPS. What 343 said..  (did not CONFIRM anything) was this:

 “There’s a chance that [Halo 2] Anniversary campaign could run at a different resolution to accommodate the second frame buffer. But the intent is to overcome that hurdle.” 

So there comment was they intend to "overcome" the hurlde. But again. This only was concerning the campaign which will run in 2 different graphics engies to offer CLASSIC and Next Gen graphics. So saying "Halo 2 will not be 1080p" is incorrect at most, and not the whole truth at the very least. 

Congratulations...half of your 10 year old game can run at modern resolutions.  Have a cookie.

None of this really matters in the larger context of my post.  Try reading the rest of it.


Ok, so now we see where you are coming from and what your intentions are. Your exaggeration is typical. Of course it can. You just can't seem to understand what the problem is.



CladInShadows on 07 July 2014
Raziel123 said:
shikamaru317 said:
Raziel123 said:
shikamaru317 said:

Ryse (Crytek later downgraded to 900p because they thought the game would look better with other graphical improvements)

Not sure if serious... It was "downgraded" because the XB1 couldn't handle it

An accusation with no proof considering the fact that Crytek themselves explained why it was downgraded, the reason being that they wanted to enable some better lighting and textures if I remember correctly, and they thought the game would look better at 900p with better lightning and textures than it would at 1080p without the better lighting and textures. 


Which means it couldn't handle it.

 

person above me: the Wii U has 3 1080p games.

You two are saying the same thing.  Just spinning it two different ways.