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Forums - Politics Discussion - Is raising minimum wage nationwide a horrible idea?

Minimum wage doesn't fix the economy, it just keeps things from getting out of hand. Without a decent minimum wage, many people find it even harder to move up the ladder.

I will readily admit that raising minimum wage is treating the symptom, not the underlying illness. I fear for the future of our economy. Like I think I said earlier, fast food is the fastest growing industry - that's terrifying! While many people say "our economy is becoming a service based economy" they ignore the fact that the only successful service-based economies are tiny island nations who rely on tourism. An economy of 300+ million people can only deteriorate if it's producing services more than goods. That should be our most pressing concern.



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Fayceless said:
Minimum wage doesn't fix the economy, it just keeps things from getting out of hand. Without a decent minimum wage, many people find it even harder to move up the ladder.

I will readily admit that raising minimum wage is treating the symptom, not the underlying illness. I fear for the future of our economy. Like I think I said earlier, fast food is the fastest growing industry - that's terrifying! While many people say "our economy is becoming a service based economy" they ignore the fact that the only successful service-based economies are tiny island nations who rely on tourism. An economy of 300+ million people can only deteriorate if it's producing services more than goods. That should be our most pressing concern.

Manufacturing is coming back, interestingly (re-shoring is a buzzword you'll see in business/econ rags lately) but the issue is that the rapid automation of manufacturing is continuing just as quickly as it has been for the past 150 years, so while output is up, employment stays flat to down.

Services are the future because, frankly, they have to be. Production will soon be entirely in the hands of the machines.



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Mr Khan said:

Manufacturing is coming back, interestingly (re-shoring is a buzzword you'll see in business/econ rags lately) but the issue is that the rapid automation of manufacturing is continuing just as quickly as it has been for the past 150 years, so while output is up, employment stays flat to down.

Services are the future because, frankly, they have to be. Production will soon be entirely in the hands of the machines.

Indeed, and part of the issue exacerbating that point is the US is funding less and less R/D which is where a ton of spinoff tech comes from, NASA for example, or the Super Collider in Texas.  People look at these as if they're massive wastes of money and time, but they're where a great deal of new jobs that cannot  easily be replaced by automation come from (until years down the line when it's become such an easy/familiar process than automation is possible), without that, we're basically just 'resting on our laurels' so to speak.



darkknightkryta said:

The thing you're not understanding is that jobs need to get done regardless of skill, school, or experience.  You're making it sound like you wouldn't want to do any of those stuff, but regardless the job needs to be done.  Would you rather walk into a warehouse, rummage through boxes to find the groceries you need?  Would you rather constantly be picking up expired dairy products because the grocery clerks weren't there to pull them off the shelves?  Would you rather go to a farm, pick up your veggies, pull them out of the ground and go through a bunch of crop that isn't ready or over grown to eat?  Cause that's what happens when you get rid of people stocking grocery shelves.  These people should be given a livable wage, and to be frank should be given a wage to let them be in middle class (Which is disappearing thanks to corporate america hoarding trillions of dollars).

The other thing too with your engineering statement.  An Engineer is no more important that the workers building the buildings.  Buildings wouldn't exist without the construction companies and the "uneducated" workers puting together the structure.  There's also an issue when no engineer can ever take into consideration unknown quantities that come up during construction and the construction workers need to adapt plans.  As an example; my cousin is an electrician.  He spends a lot of times fixing up drawings because the electrical engineers draw up plans not realizing issues that occur when trying to run wires through certain boxes or areas.  Guess who gets plaid more?  

Now, I agree a person who went through post secondary education should be compensated more but it's not just cut and dry.  A surgeon can operate on you and save your life, but it's the nurses who come at beckon's call to make sure you get better.  Never seen a surgeon come every day to see any patient.  Nurses put in more work why are they compensated less?  People would die just as easily after an operation without nurses.

Irrelevant to this discussions as construction jobs make well over minimum wage. Same with your nurse example, they're paid according to their value, education, and experience.



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Prices will go up, number of jobs will go down. So no, it's not a good thing. It's good for the lucky ones who get to keep their jobs, but for the ones who have hours cut or fired, it sucks ass.

Look for wayyy more automated checkouts at grocery stores, wal-marts, hell even fast food places could have a simple touch screen ordering system to replace cashiers....

Government can do one amazing thing that would create millions upon millions of jobs: deregulate, and step the fuck out of the way of business. Let employees and employers negotiate on wages, stop telling business "you have to pay at least this much hourly, plus Obamacare, plus pension contributions, plus all the taxes, plus abide by all the rules, licenses, regulations" etc. etc.



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DarkWraith said:
if minimum improves, everyone improves. skilled labor jobs will have to increase wages or lose their employees to walmart or staples or some other menial job where they can do nothing and get the same pay. the corporations aren't hurting one bit and can easily afford to retain talent. don't let anyone tell you otherwise, they are obviously clueless.

the concerns seem to come from the fear of the high school dropout flipping burgers making as much as someone who furthered their education and works in business or social work, etc. that will never happen, so that fear is irrational.


Well actually the concern for me is the high school dropout won't even be able to get a job flipping burgers. Raising minimum wage is like taking away the bottom few rungs of a ladder. It'll help the people already with jobs, experience, or education....and hurt the people looking for jobs with little experience or education. Will lead to higher unemployment, and higher prices. 

The thing is minimum wage jobs like flipping burgers or scanning items at Wal-mart are nothing more than rock bottom jobs you get as your first job so you can get experience then move on to something better...they aren't supposed to be the job you work at for 40 years then retire. They're for students, dropouts, or old people looking for easy part time work to supplement their pension. 



Euphoria14 said:

3.) Stop having kids when you know you can't afford to support them.

I dont read this thread at all, but what exatly do u mean ?



Marks said:

The thing is minimum wage jobs like flipping burgers or scanning items at Wal-mart are nothing more than rock bottom jobs you get as your first job so you can get experience then move on to something better...they aren't supposed to be the job you work at for 40 years then retire. They're for students, dropouts, or old people looking for easy part time work to supplement their pension. 


Well, there's two things I'd like to adress here, the first being that the experience gained from these jobs doesn't qualify anybody for other, better jobs.  Unless you're hoping to move up in that particlar company, working the cash register won't get you far.  Experience is not a factor, qualifications such as degrees are far more important in the job market.

Second, I absolutely hate the argument that minimum wage jobs are "for" a particular segment of society.  They are "for" whoever gets them.  Nobody creates a job and says "this job is designed for students!"  That job is designed for nobody in particular, and the best applicant who comes along will get the job.  If that best applicant happens to be a 40-year old parent who was laid off from their corporate job that got shipped overseas, that's who gets it.  If you want to say "a job is for students/retirees" you have to put legal restrictions on that work...which would contradict many laws and court ruling stating you can't do that.



Why can't the 1% pay for the minimum wage increase with fewer profits? Before this, wages generally stagnated while the 1% gave themselves 400x higher wages (something like that) since the 80s. Inequality massively increased as a result which I think causes long term issues for any economy.

Obviously there will be job losses from small business' but its not exceptable for multinational corporations to fire people because of a higher minimum wage when they can afford to pay more.



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KingofTrolls said:
Euphoria14 said:

3.) Stop having kids when you know you can't afford to support them.

I dont read this thread at all, but what exatly do u mean ?


It was mentioned, something on the lines of "having kids they did not expect to have".

Maybe I could have just said "Use protection".



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