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Forums - Politics Discussion - Will Religion ever be illegal in America?

Pezzilla on 30 June 2014

No, but it will be like smoking, not allowed in public places.



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o_O.Q on 30 June 2014
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
o_O.Q said:

lol ok lets go back through this slowly... this is what i said:

"the point remains that what defines them as christian is the beliefs they have"


This is your reply:

"The only thing irrelevant is your defintion. There is no strict definition on what a Christian is, there are no mandates, its not a set of rules. Its simply a set of beliefs. People who identify as Christians hold those beliefs as their own values, but depending on their own interpretation."

 

"All you're doing is making assumptions about something you don't understand to fit your perogative."

 

lol... so... uh... i'm not understanding your issue with what i said... since... uh... you basically retyped the exact same thing lol

 

"Religions are just a set of beliefs/values, ideas, they are not even physical objects. They cannot do anything. "

Physical objects by themselves generally do absolutely nothing unless some force is applied... so that's kind of pointless to say

what is relevent here is intent... intent is what causes people to interact with their surroundings whether its getting food from your fridge because you're hungry or punching someone because they angered you do you disagree?

assuming you agree we therefore have to ask if someone's beliefs may influence their intent and to me the answer seems quite obvious as a resounding yes but thats me

 

"People might use it to commit any number of atrocities, but it is the people who commited those actions. You don't blame water for tortuting people in water boarding. You don't lock that water in a container and store it underground for 20 years to rehabilitate it. Its fucking water."

Good point but again it leads back to intent why does anyone perform any action? because of their intent which to me is influenced by their beliefs

you don't lock people up based solely on them having physical bodies either do you?... no... you do so because of their actions... which are brought about by their intent...

 

"You say their is a rigid defintion for Christianity, when many Christians don't even regard other Sects as Christian because they don't have the same beliefs. You attempt to frame Christianity and Religion as a whole in a rational sense"

what i said of christiantiy is bascially identical to what you said... as demonstrated above... regardless the point about the different sects as i said previously is completely irrelevent i'm honestly at a loss to why you keep bringing it up lol

 

"The irrationality of this argument is mindboggling, you are effectively trying to tell me that rocks systematically attack people."

Actually quite the opposite what i said was that beliefs influence intent/behavior and i'm guessing that even a 10 year old would be able to grasp that tangible objects like rocks are completely different to intangible concepts like intent and behavior...

the point i've been driving at since the beginning is as you say its absurd to believe that a rock by itself will attack someone but in the hands of someone with a certain intent it could be used as a tool in an attack... 

Look again genius: what defines them as christian is the beliefs they have =/= identify as Christians hold those beliefs as their own values, but depending on their own interpretation.

Christian's are defined as people who identify as Christians, their identification is subjective. Anyone who identifies as christian is christian not solely having that beleif. You can believe/be neutral in belief of a higher power, but not subscribe to any religion, its called agnoticism.

A person is responsible for their intent, hence arrest on the charge of intent to kill. Religion only influences you if you allow it to. If Religion influenced such by knowing about it, every one would be religious.

Point being religion in the hands of ill intent can be used for immoral puposes, it is because of the person using and their intent not the Religion. You have to allow it to influence by believing in it, to even claim that you got the idea from it, but its akin to blame video games for child violence, unless someone forced you to be brainwashed by a Religion. Then its the fault of the brainwasher.

"Christian's are defined as people who identify as Christians, their identification is subjective"

a christian or theist in a broader sense is considered to be someone who has a specific set of beliefs and thats the long and short of it 

now from their you can get more abtract or specific if you'd with regards to sects or denominations or whatever ( which is pretty much irrelevent to my point as i stated ) but the fact remains that this is what identifies a theist as a theist their beliefs its pretty damn simple to me

 

"Religion only influences you if you allow it to"

quite right and i never said otherwise i suppose it could be said that those who allow religion to influence them are religious or theist in some cases ( duh ) and those who choose to disregard it are atheist ( duh again )

 

"it is because of the person using and their intent not the Religion"

so therefore hiring an assassin should be ok? Since the assassin could choose to not carry out the killing correct? therefore the client is absolved of all responsibility



prayformojo on 30 June 2014
DarkWraith said:
prayformojo said:
DarkWraith said:


it's incredibly inept, unfalsifiable, and asinine to put it mildly. in the same line of reasoning, I could be in a coma hallucinating my entire existence, without any awareness of being in a coma. the world would simply pass me by. this is the type of pseudo-scientific bullshit that should be swiftly stomped out of existence. it's at best a philosophical idea, like the BIJ scenario, or p-zombies.

no serious scientist would bother with this rubbish, you are clearly mistaken.


http://discovermagazine.com/2013/dec/09-do-we-live-in-the-matrix#.UoYKjHBFB17


yeah, so far as I can tell there is only one guy working on this seriously who I've never heard of. it's impossible to establish this...presupposing it's true and then gathering evidence to support that position is BAD science, BAD reasoning, and BAD for humanity. it should remain a philosophical consideration, and be abandoned empirically.

I bet this never gains traction with the physics community, it's largely been dormant since 2012. probably for aforementioned reasons. you know, it's a bit like "Creation Science", lots of hand waving.


The one difference in creation science is this isn't based on a Diety. It's based on science itself. 



Dr.Henry_Killinger on 01 July 2014
o_O.Q said:

"Christian's are defined as people who identify as Christians, their identification is subjective"

a christian or theist in a broader sense is considered to be someone who has a specific set of beliefs and thats the long and short of it 

now from their you can get more abtract or specific if you'd with regards to sects or denominations or whatever ( which is pretty much irrelevent to my point as i stated ) but the fact remains that this is what identifies a theist as a theist their beliefs its pretty damn simple to me

 

"Religion only influences you if you allow it to"

quite right and i never said otherwise i suppose it could be said that those who allow religion to influence them are religious or theist in some cases ( duh ) and those who choose to disregard it are atheist ( duh again )

 

"it is because of the person using and their intent not the Religion"

so therefore hiring an assassin should be ok? Since the assassin could choose to not carry out the killing correct? therefore the client is absolved of all responsibility

Hiring an assassin is intent to kill, its more akin to purchasing a firearm.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Dr.Henry_Killinger on 01 July 2014
supernihilist said:

So Religion in your words = infinite impractical void filler

Seriously stop with the blabbering already and use meaningful words. WTH are you trying yo say?

Yes. Thanks for making it succinct.

Such a valuable talent is what I strive for.

Faust said:

you got it wrong dude. 

Do I? Do I really?

Slide it all the way to the write, the statically part is where Science ends, but like SuperNihilist said, that far out is impractical.

God is located on that pixelly stactic part to the right and close to the top.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

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o_O.Q on 01 July 2014
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
o_O.Q said:

"Christian's are defined as people who identify as Christians, their identification is subjective"

a christian or theist in a broader sense is considered to be someone who has a specific set of beliefs and thats the long and short of it 

now from their you can get more abtract or specific if you'd with regards to sects or denominations or whatever ( which is pretty much irrelevent to my point as i stated ) but the fact remains that this is what identifies a theist as a theist their beliefs its pretty damn simple to me

 

"Religion only influences you if you allow it to"

quite right and i never said otherwise i suppose it could be said that those who allow religion to influence them are religious or theist in some cases ( duh ) and those who choose to disregard it are atheist ( duh again )

 

"it is because of the person using and their intent not the Religion"

so therefore hiring an assassin should be ok? Since the assassin could choose to not carry out the killing correct? therefore the client is absolved of all responsibility

Hiring an assassin is intent to kill, its more akin to purchasing a firearm.

lol well it seems we have come full circle then... ok... so therefore the client is still responsible in your  opinion?



Dr.Henry_Killinger on 01 July 2014
o_O.Q said:

lol well it seems we have come full circle then... ok... so therefore the client is still responsible in your  opinion?

Yes, but its not my opinion more like how most of the world's criminal justice systems work.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Dr.Henry_Killinger on 01 July 2014
spurgeonryan said:
padib said:
Religion gives hope to people, it's not going anywhere, not ever.


What makes you so sure of this? Sure it gives hope. Religion like Cigarrettes, alcohol, fattening foods are tailored towards the poor. This is not to be rude. Food Stamps, Coupons, even Walmart discount get you unhealthy foods in the US. Cigarrets and alcohol are sometimes the only things that are legal that poor people can do to make their dreary world better. So the government taxes it to death. Religion. Cannot be touched by the government, poor do not have to pay, and as you said, praying gives you hope. Hope for a better life, hope that your life will mean something in the end when you go to heaven.

Right?

Edit: you know what, never mind, this is a tiresome pointless debate, and I don't wish to engage with another person on the subject. Those locked in their own beleifs, which is ironic since these are the exact same arguments being made against religion and the religious, thus its pointless endeavor to try to clear misconception in minds as locked down as these.

Its as pointless as trying to explain the big bang theory to creationists, if you can't recognize this irony, then perhaps the indoctrination is far to ingrained. Thank god, none of you are responsible for the reseach that moves the human race forward.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Faust on 01 July 2014
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
Faust said:

you got it wrong dude. 

Do I? Do I really?

well, yeah. I mean, you took what he said literally



Dr.Henry_Killinger on 01 July 2014
Faust said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
Faust said:

you got it wrong dude. 

Do I? Do I really?

well, yeah. I mean, you took what he said literally

I've been in this stupid thread too long, that my mind is being polluted. 

I have the rational sense to refuse to participate in this thread any longer. Yes this is a shot at you, you know who you are.

As for why, I've explained so in my earlier quotation of Ryan which I don't feel like re-quoting

Ma'a as-salāmah.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank