1. Watch this video at 21minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TND984HW1s

3. Definition of Tragic Villain: A character who, although acting for primarily 'evil' or selfish goals, is either not in full control of their actions or emotions and the reader or viewer can sympathize for due to them not being evil by choice; but rather by them being a victim of circumstance. These villains can face a crisis of conscience in which they submit to doing evil. These villains often have confused morals believing that they are doing moral when in fact they are doing evil.

The main point of my statement though was that such a huge, pivotal moment in the story was just clumsily jammed into the game with cheap tricks and bad writing leading you to not really empathise with Dafoe when he ultimately became a tragic villain.

Also, some of the way you worded that statement confused me a bit so I apologize if this isn't exactly what you mean, but this seems to be a victim of Beyond's pointless non-linearity. You seem to be saying that if they played a bigger role, you would realize that they were gone and lose the shock when you find out they died and that may be true. HOWEVER, that does not make it well written. If the story was arranged linearly this wouldn't really be a problem in the first place and would make the game much better. I have stated before that I love non-linear stories when done right, but Beyond seems to answer all the questions before the questions are actually asked leaving you with no sense of mystery or tension throughout the game.

4. Homeless occurs chronologically after her CIA training, after Somalia and after she kills many CIA agents...she was pretty damn powerful at the time. Sure that is a lot but she was in a pretty dire situation (showing pretty much no signs of fatigue written into the story) and the solution was that an essentially powerless guy just walked in, somehow flew over the flames and walked out unscathed with a 100+ pound woman in his arms. Seems pretty farfetched to me....

For my arguments, I've seen a lot of "Yeah, it could've been a lot better" or, "Yeah, that didn't really make sense"...is that really what makes a good story? As I said, I see fragments of things that are good (albeit often heavily trope-y) but they collapse behind bad writing and what seems to me like multiple layers of pretension. Honestly, I can't think of any reason why Beyond needed to be non linear other than the fact that QD thought that meant it would be more complex or artistic. It seems like they just took the story and threw it in a blender and glued it together. A good non-linear story builds up plotpoints paralel to each other, leading to a climactic revelation, it does solve problems before they arise...

1 - Don't remember if in all situations you kiss him... but I can understand that when going for your last moment you decide to kiss someone (a lot of people decides to make love in the middle of a battle).

3 - He isn't a tragic villain, he doesn't think he is doing vile things (altough I do think you should be able to decide to let the Doctor have it his way).

2 - I agree it isn't well written as it cheapens the plot by making it completely hidden to the player. If it was linear you would know from the first scene that the reason the doc is studying the infraworld is because he lost his family so you would expect him to try to bridge the dimensions. But of course they could go for a easier villain like the general or any other top-dog in government.

4 - As said before you get saved by the other guy if you screw the scrip on the phase, if you do everything right you don't need them to help you, since you failed and she won't die because of it them you get saved in a idiotic way. So why consider she an unstoppable force (and I gave all the actions that could make her tired) when you a player with 10+ years of experience in gaming, under a controlled enviroment, free of the stress would make a mistake and she wouldn't?

I didn't said it's a good story, I said I liked it for what it is and liked the game. And to you I said it have good entertainment value. Nothing really needs to be non-linear, it is made like that to tell the story in a different way and make you have different glimpses of her life... we actually have a lot of void moments that aren't covered in the jumps and if linear would see strange.

it does make a huge difference if you press the wrong button for QTE. it not only affects the bonuses you get depending on which you choose but it also effects your upgrades for marius. They must hav ebeen playing it on easy. On normal you get something if you miss it but you also also get penalize for pressing the wrong button. If you play it on th hardest difficulty ,, if you press the wrong button during the sequence,, you get no rewards and your timing determines  the amount of damage you , health you get , teh amount of focus you get and so on. In all honesty heavy rain story telling was flawed. they ended up creating alot of loopholes and creatign more questions rather then answering them. My dad who has never played a video game in his life,, watched m eplay the entire capaign  of heavy rain and he said that story is stupid and he kept on asking me questions  regarding ths story  which teh game didn't explain properly. However my dad enjoy watchiing Uncharted XD. The one after heavy rain does a much better job in story telling .

3. Need I repeat the definition of a tragic villain that I just posted? "These villains often have confused morals believing that they are doing moral when in fact they are doing evil." Tragic Villains often think they are doing the right thing...

2. He could have just been doing the studies for scientific purposes at first with his wife and daughter developed beside him, and when he lost them his goals changed...

4. ...that may just be the most inane comparison I have ever heard. I am sorry, I cannot respond to that without saying something that would likely get me banned. I will just point out that you seem to agree that the way she got saved is entirely idiotic and that was pretty much my entire point.

Anyways, that last paragraph sounds like the ultimate concession...you didn't say it was a good story. Okay, then what are we arguing for? This is a game built around story and in my opinion, a game built around story, with a not-good story, is a not-good game. You can feel whatever you want, but I made my case as to why the story was bad and you don't really seem to be disagreeing with me.

Finally, non-linearity is pretty much awesome when done right. From Baccano to Memento, it is done to allow the viewer to piece together pieces of the story and watch as they come together to the thrilling conclusion. The common thread that these stories have is that they often feature characters with little change. A dynamic character jumping around a story would be a mess, and lifelong character study such as Beyond is all about dynamic characters. There is a time and place for non-linear stories and they can be some of my favorite stories when done right, but Beyond is not the place, and it did not do this right....

Also, jumps in linear stories are fine and happen pretty much all the time, and it is made even easier in video games. With a little bit of writing that wouldn't be any concern....

3. Need I repeat the definition of a tragic villain that I just posted? "These villains often have confused morals believing that they are doing moral when in fact they are doing evil." Tragic Villains often think they are doing the right thing...

2. He could have just been doing the studies for scientific purposes at first with his wife and daughter developed beside him, and when he lost them his goals changed...

4. ...that may just be the most inane comparison I have ever heard. I am sorry, I cannot respond to that without saying something that would likely get me banned. I will just point out that you seem to agree that the way she got saved is entirely idiotic and that was pretty much my entire point.

Anyways, that last paragraph sounds like the ultimate concession...you didn't say it was a good story. Okay, then what are we arguing for? This is a game built around story and in my opinion, a game built around story, with a not-good story, is a not-good game. You can feel whatever you want, but I made my case as to why the story was bad and you don't really seem to be disagreeing with me.

Finally, non-linearity is pretty much awesome when done right. From Baccano to Memento, it is done to allow the viewer to piece together pieces of the story and watch as they come together to the thrilling conclusion. The common thread that these stories have is that they often feature characters with little change. A dynamic character jumping around a story would be a mess, and lifelong character study such as Beyond is all about dynamic characters. There is a time and place for non-linear stories and they can be some of my favorite stories when done right, but Beyond is not the place, and it did not do this right....

Also, jumps in linear stories are fine and happen pretty much all the time, and it is made even easier in video games. With a little bit of writing that wouldn't be any concern....

That argument would have some validity if it played anything like God of War.

Its more like a QD game with better combat.

Indeed. I really enjoyed the game (although it was just a fraction to what I got from Heavy Rain). 

3 - I didn't saw that in your definition of tragic villain. But I would say I didn't care much about his reason and found it silly, altough I do understand why he would do that, dying would solve it faster (the plot seems like Madara in Naruto).

2 - You said about making it linear. If you kept the same history and just make it linear you would know from the begging that he were researching to reunite with his family.

4 - You would be banned to say that you should get a game over and not rescued? You got a weak saving because the guy playing were a weak player (or forced the fail so he could show "the absurdity") but your only reason to dismiss she could be tired is "they didn't show her tired".

So you go from good history to bad history and consider that I agree with you without even knowing what I consider good and bad. And are even proud of it.

Don't remember any linear game that jump from "training", "first mission", "last mission", "the end".

You didnt, what youre doing is nitpicking. Does the story has flaws ? Yes it does, its very hard to find a perfect story in any media but it does manage to tell the tale it set out to tell and make sense in the end. Its non linearity made for an entertaining storytelling mechanic and it makes sense whithim the story itself as in the end we learn the whole game was Joddie writting down the fragments of memory she still hadnt lost after the events on the Black Sun, adn since her memory was all screwed up she wasnt remembering the stuf in theyre correct order. 

And you have to fail rather miserably to be saved in Homeless, so you cant realy blame the game for bad storytelling if you yourself failled at beeing a badass, Joddies is only as badass as you are capable of completting the action QTEs sucessfully (and that was the case on Heavy Rain too, you could escape arrest if you were good at the QTEs or get arrested, you could complete the car chalenge or drive headfirst into the wall and other things)cause if you fail every QTE she always gets helped or saved by Aidan or something.

That argument would have some validity if it played anything like God of War.

Its more like a QD game with better combat.