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Forums - Gaming Discussion - About the "eigth gen is only a prettier seventh gen" argument

JWeinCom said:
FFX would have had to be MASSIVELY scaled back to work on the PS1. Had we seen a game before with that amount of voice acting? The graphical leap between FFXIX and X was enormous. Compare that to the difference between Infamous 1 and 2 and it's clear how much of a difference it was.

As for the SNES, that's an awfully cherry picked example. Could the NES handle Mario World? I'm not sure. There were a lot of levels and they were a lot longer than the NES games had. But, lets say that it could. Could the NES do Pilot Wings? Could it do F-Zero? Nope.

You couldn't do Wii Sports on the Wii. Nor could you do Wario Ware or Raving Rabbids. I enjoyed these games very much. You can throw Elebits onto that list as well as Excite Bike and Red Steel. First two of those were underrated. The last was not so good. I didn't have a 360 or a PS3 at launch, but simply by virtue of the jump from SD to HD they were a big graphical leap.

Great list of counterexamples. It really does just feel like this generation won't be seeing much that's new or special. Probably specious, but the feeling largely seems to be there all the same.

d21lewis said:

 When I got my PS4/Xbox One, I was stunned to find that I actually LOST features that I'd relied on with my PS3/360.  So, yeah.

That's because last generation also introduced the concept of patches and updates: why finish now when you can do so later?



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It seems to me that most people that posted agree with me. For the ones that don't, I sincerely hope that'll change. In fact, I expect it to change - it's like I said, give it time, whether you like it or not.

Now, it's 8 pages of posts, so I can't counter-argue everything, so I'll just reply the ones that come to mind:

No, Wii Sports could not be done on the GC. But we all have to agree that motion controls is a complement to a few genres at best, and a gimmick at worst. The vast majority of game genres do not work well with this kind of controls. And the Wii was just one among other 3 - and the PS360 were just prettier versions of PS2/XB games, at first. Here's an example, comparing Heavenly Sword to GoW2, and then inFamous 2 to Second Son:

http://files.connectgame5.webnode.com/200000039-ce714cf6b4/20091120_14.jpg
http://www.gameboxpira.com/produtos/231120121511311.jpg

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/3/33759/1718469-infamous_2_2.jpg
http://nowgamer.net-genie.co.uk/siteimage/scale/0/0/374721.jpg

I hope I'm not accused of "cherry-picking" since that is not my intention, but could Second Son be done on the PS3? Is it truly just a prettier inFamous 2? Or, using the same words of someone here, would it have to drastically downgraded?

When you compare Killzone and Resistance, does the latter REALLY felt next-gen at the time? Be sincere here - I'm pretty sure I saw a considerable amount of people with rather similar complaints at the game.

About the "we don't have exciting games announced", I'd say that's just a matter of opinion. Look at my sig, and you'll notice I'm truly hyped for FFXV, for example. There are people excited for KH3, others for Sunset Overdrive, there are some even actually looking forward to The Order. And E3 is just around the corner, anyway. But if we don't have anything there, what did 7th gen had at this point? Super Mario Galaxy? We already have Mario 3D World, and if it's not as impressive as Galaxy, is that the gen's fault, or it's just that it's an inferior game, and that's it? You can't say that it was motion controle that made SMG awesome, because it wasn't.

Twilight Princess? The only reason it was a launch title, it's because the Wii is close to GC, allowing it to be easily ported - it's actually a case of a system making a small leap. And Zelda U is certainly going to be announced at E3 - and let's not forget Nintendo are behind, it's their first time with HD games. But again, they are just one among three - and the other two are only six months old.

I've seen someone mentioning that seeing online play or listening to music on the 360 for the first time felt next-gen, but he himself admitted that he skipped the original Xbox. Well, if he had the console, would these things feel next-gen, after using them for an entire generation?

And, like many people said before me, you're looking at the surface. Graphically, it's not gonna be ground-breaking, but the huge upgrade on RAM will sooner or later show its benefits. Maybe it did on already released games, but I'm no technical expert. Much like 6th gen did what the 5th couldn't, and the 7th what the 6th couldn't, we're bound to see the same kind of upgrade happening.



The Wii-U actually has a number of pretty stellar games... its just that they don't seem to be catching the eye of the average consumer because they're no part of the 'cinematic' trend.



Except for jump from 16-bit to 3D, for every gen it can be said that it's just prettier last gen, which is both true and not in the same time.

While many games are really just prettier versions of their previous incarnations, there are lot of things that are not possible on previous gen...I always like comparison of PC FarCry 1 and console version (FarCry Instincts) and how much they had to make it more linear due to hardware limitations.

So I guess, for some devs, next-gen is all about their games being purdier (nothing wrong with that, mind you), and for others it's about new possibilities.



I will say that the jump from the NES to the SNES (as someone who lived through it) was essentially an update in technology from 8 bit to 16 bit that made the games prettier, cleaner and hey; more immersive. Most of my favorite SNES games, which remain all time favorites to date, were essentially "Super" versions of the games I played on the NES, with all its hardware limitations.

What do you know? Graphics do matter.

From a game play perspective, there weren't a huge number of advances beyond moving from 2 face buttons to 4 face buttons and 2 shoulder buttons.

Going back to the OP argument, I do see a lot of similarities between the shift from the 7th and 8th gens and from the 3rd and 4th (Master system to Genesis, NES to SNES).

The switch from low memory software, chip storage to high capacity optical media (and the unfortunate introduction of load times) was a big jump in how games could be developed. Storage space was a much smaller issue and it really did change the scope of many games.

The switch from local centric development to an online centric development also was a significant shift.

For the most part, any current game on the 8th gen could be run on 7th gen hardware, but as a stripped down experience; cross gen ports support this notion. Even the exclusives could be done on older hardware even though they would be scaled back.

I'm not really sure what sort of unrealistic expectations consumers really had for the current gen of hardware. VR gaming is coming; we'll see whether it actually delivers.

Whether it was necessary or even important for that to have been available at the onset of the 8th gen launch is highly questionable. The most important thing for the 8th gen was to increase the resource pool (memory, graphics processing, and general processing) to facilitate ease of development while keeping costs manageable on a manufacturing and retail level. I seriously doubt we would have seen even half the sales we've seen in reality had the XB1 and PS4 shipped with VR headsets adding an additional $100-200 to MSRPs.

Given the first year reality in terms of software for the XB360 and the PS3 in which the hardware was there and capable, but the games themselves were in retrospect, actually quite average with the added visual benefits of the new hardware, I'm actually fairly satisfied with the 8th gen so far.



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d21lewis said:

When I first saw the Xbox 360 dashboard with the ability to customize my soundtracks, jump into online games, chat, download DLC, send messages, etc. (I missed the original Xbox almost entirely), I felt like it was truly next gen.  Call of Duty 2 alone was quite amazing.  When I got my PS4/Xbox One, I was stunned to find that I actually LOST features that I'd relied on with my PS3/360.  So, yeah.

Very true. 

Granted, some or most of those will eventually find there way back on the new platforms, but the notion I had that the PS4 would become my default media player when I bought it died instantly. No media remote, no external HDD support, no media codec support, no music support, etc. 

Although if I remember correctly, it wasn't until after a series of updates to the PS3 that it replaced my PC as a media center. 

Doesn't really change my opinion on the new consoles since I buy them to play games and watch optical discs and Netflix, but even if it weren't for the 7th gen games that I want to play, I'd still keep the PS3 plugged in for the media remote alone. 



I've got to respectfully disagree with the OP. In my opinion, now more than ever especially, there won't be any definitive point in time where we can say, "Hey guys look! The next gen has started!" Because of the nature of the internet we're actually seeing a gradual transition into what the next gen should look like and the infrastructure for this has already been planted. To me, for next gen, I envision seamless integration to cloud based services (PSNow, XBCloud), multitasking, the ability to start a game instantly, pause it, turn the console off and instantly resume, but more importantly how we're going to come to interact with video games. I think that Project Morpheus will be the true start of Sonys next gen and if it's first iteration is adopted well enough we might see it become an integral part of the system; I'd say the same for Microsoft but it seems like they're actually stepping away from the Kinect.

Either way, to me, Next Gen starts with how we're going to be interacting with our games and all the wonderful things we'll be able to achieve through broadband internet.



No complaints from me as far as graphics are concerned.  Really enjoying the X1 quite a bit, though I wish it had Final Fantasy 14.   I need to get a pC or PS4 for that soon...



It's still to early to call out an entire gen.You really got to ignore the fact the new gen isn't even a year old and we already saw something like Ryse produce some of the best visuals ever seen on a console, and that's just a launch game. Games by the end of each gen tend to look above and beyond everything that a launch game wish it could be. Each console is gonna have it's hardware pushed far beyond it's predecessor and then some.



And playroom wouldn't be possible to make on ps3. No lightbar to cover, good facial and body movement tracking and interaction.
And no possibility to direct feed you having sex while playing and vice-versa. And no cross game chat on ps3 as well or 3 OSs on X360.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

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