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Do you think Microsoft has pissed off the industry like how Sega did with the Saturn?

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Do you think the industry is annoyed with Microsofts inability to stick to a gameplan?

Yes 227 49.78%
 
No 177 38.82%
 
See results 49 10.75%
 
Total:453
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

You're overly sensitive

I never implied that, MS was on the level of Wii U, Vita, DreamCast, or Saturn. Just that devs, especially indies, are starting to question the value of xbox exclusivity, even if the target market is in the US

MS has always relied on its ease of programming, money, and us marketshare for the xbox brand.

Now that its losing on the ease of development side, and behind in US marketshare, its up to money to bear the brunt. Simply put, they can't really on multiplats much longer. Coupled with the 180s, devs are going to be less exclusive to the XB1 which, was its strength on the 360. Sure the few exclusives it had moved consoles, but they didn't neccessarily put it in the mainstream.


I'm overly sensitive? Sounds like someone is projecting.

I used Wii U and Vita as an example because those are current platforms that don't have it together... kinda like Saturn and Dreamcast. Struggling for support and little hope of a bright future.

The PS4 is likely easier to develop because of superior specs, but that doesn't mean X1 is particularly difficult to develop for. I mean I heard a developer flat out say the X1 isn't as difficult to devlop for as the PS3, so I don't believe "ease of programming" is a valid argument. Eitherway, developers will support the hardware as long as a it moves a significant amount of software.

MS's biggest competitors have also relied heavily on money. I mean Sony spent a fortune to keep the PS3 competitive.

I'm gonna be blunt, your arguments sound more like rambling and wishful thinking. Hence, I'm gonna just ignore most of your arguments because I find them useless..

MS needs to continue putting quality games on X1 and take steps that can further boost hardware sales (such as the Kinectless bundle). If MS does that, everything else kinda falls into place.



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for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

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Mr Puggsly said:

I'm overly sensitive? Sounds like someone is projecting.

Why would I be overly sensitive about any of this? Your the one that assumed I was saying that it was already as bad as the Wii U/Vita. You might want to go back and read the post.

e.g Q: Do you think Microsoft has pissed off the industry like how Sega did with the Saturn?

       A: Not yet. But they will if MS doesn't get it together.

I used Wii U and Vita as an example because those are current platforms that don't have it together... kinda like Saturn and Dreamcast. Struggling for support and little hope of a bright future.

What does that have to do with anything? The OP asked about whether or not Devs are pissed at MS, I said not yet, but if they keep making 180s and lagging behind in the US, then they will lose their favorable position.

The PS4 is likely easier to develop because of superior specs, but that doesn't mean X1 is particularly difficult to develop for. I mean I heard a developer flat out say the X1 isn't as difficult to devlop for as the PS3, so I don't believe "ease of programming" is a valid argument. Eitherway, developers will support the hardware as long as a it moves a significant amount of software.

Ease of Programming its not just about superior specs, its about more streamlined/easier to use hardware, hUMA vs esRAM is not even a contest. I never implied it was the same level as the PS3, but it goes back to my initial point about devs not favoring XB1 as much as they did 360.

MS's biggest competitors have also relied heavily on money. I mean Sony spent a fortune to keep the PS3 competitive.

That is besides the point, I'm talking about money spent on multiplats. Last Gen, 360 relied on multiplats and often ensured exclusive content with money. This time around, its a really bad deal.

I'm gonna be blunt, your arguments sound more like rambling and wishful thinking. Hence, I'm gonna just ignore most of your arguments because I find them useless..

What am I wishing for? You are the one who called me out. Now you want to ignore my response? Sounds like you didn't come prepared.

MS needs to continue putting quality games on X1 and take steps that can further boost hardware sales (such as the Kinectless bundle). If MS does that, everything else kinda falls into place.

Clearly, but quality exclusives is Sony's and Nintendo's moreso, strong suits. Its not going to be as easy it was for the PS3 now with the XB1, cause the only time Xbox has faced stronger competion in the US is with the PS2.

 

Going around picking fights are we?



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Maybe the few kinect developers out there but the rest of the industry couldn't care less. It's nothing like what sega did with mega cd, 32x or saturn.



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

Why would I be overly sensitive about any of this? Your the one that assumed I was saying that it was already as bad as the Wii U/Vita. You might want to go back and read the post.

e.g Q: Do you think Microsoft has pissed off the industry like how Sega did with the Saturn?

       A: Not yet. But they will if MS doesn't get it together.

What does that have to do with anything? The OP asked about whether or not Devs are pissed at MS, I said not yet, but if they keep making 180s and lagging behind in the US, then they will lose their favorable position.

Ease of Programming its not just about superior specs, its about more streamlined/easier to use hardware, hUMA vs esRAM is not even a contest. I never implied it was the same level as the PS3, but it goes back to my initial point about devs not favoring XB1 as much as they did 360.

That is besides the point, I'm talking about money spent on multiplats. Last Gen, 360 relied on multiplats and often ensured exclusive content with money. This time around, its a really bad deal.

What am I wishing for? You are the one who called me out. Now you want to ignore my response? Sounds like you didn't come prepared.

Clearly, but quality exclusives is Sony's and Nintendo's moreso, strong suits. Its not going to be as easy it was for the PS3 now with the XB1, cause the only time Xbox has faced stronger competion in the US is with the PS2.

 

Going around picking fights are we?

You're too sensitive, calm down.

I didn't assume anything, you took that Vita and Wii U comment too personally. I said "some people", not you.

MS is obviously making the 180s to boost hardware sales... which benefits developers. Hence, I'm sure developers are quite happy with 180s.

Once again, ease of programming doesn't really matter. If it did, PS3 would have had zero support. If the X1 can move software it will get support. It doesn't matter if developers favor PS4, its clear they generally strive for quality ports on X1 as well.

I don't understand your argument about 360 relying on multiplats. MS sold plenty of 1st party software on the 360. According to VGChartz, 360 sold more 1st party software than PS3. For the record, both Sony and MS rely heavily on multiplat software.

I came prepared, as you can see my responses above are valid.

Sorry, I don't feel Sony's 1st party is better than what MS offers. In fact, I give MS the edge because of Halo and Gears. But hey, this is subjective. I like fun games, but some people prefer cinematic experiences.



Recently Completed
Crackdown 3
for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

Why would I be overly sensitive about any of this? Your the one that assumed I was saying that it was already as bad as the Wii U/Vita. You might want to go back and read the post.

e.g Q: Do you think Microsoft has pissed off the industry like how Sega did with the Saturn?

       A: Not yet. But they will if MS doesn't get it together.

What does that have to do with anything? The OP asked about whether or not Devs are pissed at MS, I said not yet, but if they keep making 180s and lagging behind in the US, then they will lose their favorable position.

Ease of Programming its not just about superior specs, its about more streamlined/easier to use hardware, hUMA vs esRAM is not even a contest. I never implied it was the same level as the PS3, but it goes back to my initial point about devs not favoring XB1 as much as they did 360.

That is besides the point, I'm talking about money spent on multiplats. Last Gen, 360 relied on multiplats and often ensured exclusive content with money. This time around, its a really bad deal.

What am I wishing for? You are the one who called me out. Now you want to ignore my response? Sounds like you didn't come prepared.

Clearly, but quality exclusives is Sony's and Nintendo's moreso, strong suits. Its not going to be as easy it was for the PS3 now with the XB1, cause the only time Xbox has faced stronger competion in the US is with the PS2.

 

Going around picking fights are we?

You're too sensitive, calm down.

I didn't assume anything, you took that Vita and Wii U comment too personally. I said "some people", not you.

MS is obviously making the 180s to boost hardware sales... which benefits developers. Hence, I'm sure developers are quite happy with 180s.

Once again, ease of programming doesn't really matter. If it did, PS3 would have had zero support. If the X1 can move software it will get support. It doesn't matter if developers favor PS4, its clear they generally strive for quality ports on X1 as well.

I don't understand your argument about 360 relying on multiplats. MS sold plenty of 1st party software on the 360. According to VGChartz, 360 sold more 1st party software than PS3. For the record, both Sony and MS rely heavily on multiplat software.

I came prepared, as you can see my responses above are valid.

Sorry, I don't feel Sony's 1st party is better than what MS offers. In fact, I give MS the edge because of Halo and Gears. But hey, this is subjective. I like fun games, but some people prefer cinematic experiences.

First off, it doesn't matter that you said some people cause you directly replied to me.

Second of all it doesn't matter what you feel or prefer. Sony has more higher rated exclusives and more exclusives in general then the 360. OG Xbox had many good exclusives, but without multiplat advantage, it didn't count for much. The only time multiplats have ever been in the PS3's favor is near the end of the lifecycle, 360's multiplat dominance is unquestioned.

The X1's exclusive library is not sufficient enough to counter the PS4's offerings, thats why to date the only month its been first in NPD was because of supply issues. 

With regard to developer support of the platform, I never suggested that it was as bad as the Wii U, but at the same time it doesn't need to be. 360 had a clear favorable position, that is shifting to PS4. 

That's why I said Not Yet, but if these trends continue they lose the favortism they have had in the industry. 

X1 doesn't have a chance worldwide, if it loses the gains of the 360, then its not getting the back this gen.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

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Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

First off, it doesn't matter that you said some people cause you directly replied to me.

Second of all it doesn't matter what you feel or prefer. Sony has more higher rated exclusives and more exclusives in general then the 360. OG Xbox had many good exclusives, but without multiplat advantage, it didn't count for much. The only time multiplats have ever been in the PS3's favor is near the end of the lifecycle, 360's multiplat dominance is unquestioned.

The X1's exclusive library is not sufficient enough to counter the PS4's offerings, thats why to date the only month its been first in NPD was because of supply issues. 

With regard to developer support of the platform, I never suggested that it was as bad as the Wii U, but at the same time it doesn't need to be. 360 had a clear favorable position, that is shifting to PS4. 

That's why I said Not Yet, but if these trends continue they lose the favortism they have had in the industry. 

X1 doesn't have a chance worldwide, if it loses the gains of the 360, then its not getting the back this gen.


Some people need to back off. :-p

What I feel and prefer absolutely matters. I don't care what critics prefer, I play what I enjoy and so do many other people.

Hahah!! "The X1's exclusive library is not sufficient enough to counter the PS4's offerings." Oh god, that's hilarious! You're a funny dude. The best I expect from Sony is more Naughty Dog games and I feel those are laughably over rated. Taste in games is subjective.

360 often had the more favorable position among developers simply because its was relatively easy to develop for. Even Japanese developers were often using the 360 as the lead platform. PS4 has become more favorable and that's fine. The X1 will still get great support as long as MS can move a lot of units.

The 8th gen has just begun, I antcipate the PS4 will be keeping the lead but the X1 can still move a significant amount of hardware. Perhaps at par with the 360. That would ensure great support, period.



Recently Completed
Crackdown 3
for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

The Saturn really didn't directly piss off any consumers. They where alienated with the Sega CD and 32X add on for the Genesis/Mega drive. It also didn't help that it was $100 more then the PS1 when it launched ($399US versus $299US) and that a lot of the best Saturn games weren't localized for the US and other markets and where only released in Japan. Making the Kinect optional is actually a great move and better then anything Sega did around the launch time frame of the Saturn.



mutantclown said:

Sega never did anything wrong to the industry. They are and remain Saints compared to Microsoft and the Xbox. I would exchange MS for Sega in a heartbeat. 


They just where the fist company that screwed over consumers with add ons that turned out to be worthless for the most part with the 32X and Sega CD. 



Mr Puggsly said:

Some people need to back off. :-p

What I feel and prefer absolutely matters. I don't care what critics prefer, I play what I enjoy and so do many other people.

Hahah!! "The X1's exclusive library is not sufficient enough to counter the PS4's offerings." Oh god, that's hilarious! You're a funny dude. The best I expect from Sony is more Naughty Dog games and I feel those are laughably over rated. Taste in games is subjective.

360 often had the more favorable position among developers simply because its was relatively easy to develop for. Even Japanese developers were often using the 360 as the lead platform. PS4 has become more favorable and that's fine. The X1 will still get great support as long as MS can move a lot of units.

The 8th gen has just begun, I antcipate the PS4 will be keeping the lead but the X1 can still move a significant amount of hardware. Perhaps at par with the 360. That would ensure great support, period.

When you're done baiting and actually on topic, then perhaps you can continue the discussion.

I'm unconcerned with your subjective opinion.

I simply made a claim of my own opinion about whether or not MS has pissed off the industry.

You can believe whatever you want but the fact of the matter is facts exist, You can try and spin them but its no use.

Sales are not subjective, you can talk all you want but the fact is that XB1 has only won one NPD since its release, NPD being a US based tracker, the XB1's strongest market.

You keep talking about XB1's support like I'm saying its going to vanish, I never said that. But with all the exclusive support they've had so far on the One, they are losing, and if this keep going then the paying for exclusive COD map packs is going to become extremely cost-prohibitive.

You are the one that claimed that ease of programming was irrelevant, but now you are saying its the reason the 360 was supported in Japan. Why wouldn't the PS4 have the advantage in this regard now?

Whether or not it does better than 360 remains to be seen even if it is tracking ahead of it, because many beleive the market is shrinking anyway. Not to mention the XB1 and the X360 are in very different scenarios. With the XB1 being in a worse match up even if it is stronger.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

DRM doesnt bother devs and publishers. It only pissed off the people. The Kinect issue is the only thing that could possibly piss off devs.