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Forums - Politics Discussion - Where on the spectrum are you?

 

Where on the spectrum are you?

Left 62 43.06%
 
Centre 46 31.94%
 
Right 36 25.00%
 
Total:144

fiscally right-wing.

socially, a somewhat unusual mash-up of right and left views, but i'd say overall i take the more conservative stance on social issues.

i do not consider myself a libertarian because i don't particularly fully subscribe to the ideology of libertarianism.



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I'm spectrum 48k... boom.

No seriously i don't consider myself any of them, i think putting yourself in a pigeon hole is not sensible, because you can pick and choose depending on the situation :)



Making an indie game : Dead of Day!

Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
Egann said:
Center-right, with strong libertarian leanings.

I think the problem in the US is that most politicians, lobbyists, and political parties make livings by NOT fixing issues. In fact, if anything they deliberately inflame them to get votes and donations. I will vote for anyone who I think will fix problems. They are very rare, indeed.

Also, is it just me or are two thirds of the issues out there which polarize people just...stupid?

I mean, take abortion. Sure, it's unfortunate it happens, but if you hate it that much, wouldn't it be better to change the culture which makes people get abortions rather than forcing a law down people's throats?

And how about climate change? If the doomsday talk is even within two orders of magnitude of correct, we're screwed and there is literally jack squat we can do about it. It literally makes more sense to tell people to stockpile mass quantities of food and seed than to try to be political about it. The damage is already done.


Well, generally you've got to take into account that people who are against abortion literally see it as the murder of babies.

It's hard to agree to a half measure or take things calmly and slowly when talking about baby murder.


That's what causes the abortion issue.  

 

Pro-Life people see the opponents statement as "A woman has a right to choose... to murder children."

While Pro Choice people see the opponents statement as "A woman can't choose to get rid of a pregnancy that may eventually result in a human being."

 

Both are statements that most people would agree with, from the viewpoint if which they see it.  Very few people are for postbirth abortions outside of the biological ethics field  and very few people are against the use of contraceptives.

 

Nobody actually argues the various science and philosphy behind when a baby is a baby, and instead sticks to their points.

 

Generally most wedge issues are caused by this.  Neither side actually realizing what they are argueing about, and instead each assuming things as common facts and argueing about something somewhat unreleated.

That and the biological ethics field leads to some scary conclusions. If we accept "thinking life" as a certain level of "sacred and inviolable," well, there goes the pork industry, because pigs are easily as smart as very young babies. If we go the opposite route where you have to count as smarter than the smartest animal to have a human's right to life, then infanticide is justifiable up to what, 18 months or so? The logical routes will lead to conclusions that are very inconvenient (imagine running over a dog with your car suddenly being as bad as running over a baby) or very unsettling (legalized infanticide. Though that may not be unsettling to a lot of cultures in the past or in the present).

If we don't accept either route, than "when it comes out of the womb" is as good enough an abritrary point as any to place the "human/nonhuman" divide.


Eh, I'd suggest something functional would be better.  As there are much less arbitrary decisions.

For example, the commonly used in the US "Survivability" metric.  Where if it medically has a good chance to survive out of the womb it's life should be perserved since people will adopt it.  

Or just general brainwave functions.   Which is used in Europe.  Funniest part about the abortion debate is that it's less of a issue in Europe, but also far more restricted.  

An opinion based soley on "as good a time as any" is not an opinio worth holding in my particular opinion.

Better to just not have a position on it at all.



Left-wing libertarianism or moderate Greens.



Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
Egann said:
Center-right, with strong libertarian leanings.

I think the problem in the US is that most politicians, lobbyists, and political parties make livings by NOT fixing issues. In fact, if anything they deliberately inflame them to get votes and donations. I will vote for anyone who I think will fix problems. They are very rare, indeed.

Also, is it just me or are two thirds of the issues out there which polarize people just...stupid?

I mean, take abortion. Sure, it's unfortunate it happens, but if you hate it that much, wouldn't it be better to change the culture which makes people get abortions rather than forcing a law down people's throats?

And how about climate change? If the doomsday talk is even within two orders of magnitude of correct, we're screwed and there is literally jack squat we can do about it. It literally makes more sense to tell people to stockpile mass quantities of food and seed than to try to be political about it. The damage is already done.


Well, generally you've got to take into account that people who are against abortion literally see it as the murder of babies.

It's hard to agree to a half measure or take things calmly and slowly when talking about baby murder.


That's what causes the abortion issue.  

 

Pro-Life people see the opponents statement as "A woman has a right to choose... to murder children."

While Pro Choice people see the opponents statement as "A woman can't choose to get rid of a pregnancy that may eventually result in a human being."

 

Both are statements that most people would agree with, from the viewpoint if which they see it.  Very few people are for postbirth abortions outside of the biological ethics field  and very few people are against the use of contraceptives.

 

Nobody actually argues the various science and philosphy behind when a baby is a baby, and instead sticks to their points.

 

Generally most wedge issues are caused by this.  Neither side actually realizing what they are argueing about, and instead each assuming things as common facts and argueing about something somewhat unreleated.

That and the biological ethics field leads to some scary conclusions. If we accept "thinking life" as a certain level of "sacred and inviolable," well, there goes the pork industry, because pigs are easily as smart as very young babies. If we go the opposite route where you have to count as smarter than the smartest animal to have a human's right to life, then infanticide is justifiable up to what, 18 months or so? The logical routes will lead to conclusions that are very inconvenient (imagine running over a dog with your car suddenly being as bad as running over a baby) or very unsettling (legalized infanticide. Though that may not be unsettling to a lot of cultures in the past or in the present).

If we don't accept either route, than "when it comes out of the womb" is as good enough an abritrary point as any to place the "human/nonhuman" divide.


Eh, I'd suggest something functional would be better.  As there are much less arbitrary decisions.

For example, the commonly used in the US "Survivability" metric.  Where if it medically has a good chance to survive out of the womb it's life should be perserved since people will adopt it.  

Or just general brainwave functions.   Which is used in Europe.  Funniest part about the abortion debate is that it's less of a issue in Europe, but also far more restricted.  


I kinda disagree with the "human/ non-human" divide. A first trimester fetus is not functionally all that inferior to a toddler, but they're both valuable because they have the same thing: nearly limitless human potential.  This is not to say that my idealism knows no bounds and abortion shoul never happen, but arguments over what is and isn't human kinda miss the point.

That said, the major reason most parents have abortions is that raising a child from infancy to adulthood costs on average $240,000 dollars. A child COSTS a quarter of a million dollars. Abortion exists as an issue because traditional family structure depended on apprenticeships and child labor. Without those or a reasonable compromise, children become dead weights on families for almost two decades. The cost of raising children has ballooned out of control and abortion became an issue in response.

If pro-life supporters addressed the root economic cause--the real reason people are devaluing the fetuses in question--rather than picketing fences, people would love them. I mean, who doesn't want the cost of raising a child to go down?



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Egann said:
Kasz216 said:


Eh, I'd suggest something functional would be better.  As there are much less arbitrary decisions.

For example, the commonly used in the US "Survivability" metric.  Where if it medically has a good chance to survive out of the womb it's life should be perserved since people will adopt it.  

Or just general brainwave functions.   Which is used in Europe.  Funniest part about the abortion debate is that it's less of a issue in Europe, but also far more restricted.  


I kinda disagree with the "human/ non-human" divide. A first trimester fetus is not functionally all that inferior to a toddler, but they're both valuable because they have the same thing: nearly limitless human potential.  This is not to say that my idealism knows no bounds and abortion shoul never happen, but arguments over what is and isn't human kinda miss the point.

That said, the major reason most parents have abortions is that raising a child from infancy to adulthood costs on average $240,000 dollars. A child COSTS a quarter of a million dollars. Abortion exists as an issue because traditional family structure depended on apprenticeships and child labor. Without those or a reasonable compromise, children become dead weights on families for almost two decades. The cost of raising children has ballooned out of control and abortion became an issue in response.

If pro-life supporters addressed the root economic cause--the real reason people are devaluing the fetuses in question--rather than picketing fences, people would love them. I mean, who doesn't want the cost of raising a child to go down?

It's not like abortion is anything new, though. In the old days they'd just leave an unwanted newborn outside to die of exposure.

Though you are quite correct that more focus should be made on weeding out the underpinning reasons for abortions, and to be fair, many pro-life groups do also engage in charitable work to make the baby they want you to have something more treasured than a financial curse. It's just that the overall narrative woven by the right tends to forget the "good works" part, creating an impression of "we'll fight like hell for that baby until its out of the womb, then it's your problem and you're a drain on society for having that baby that we made you have."

(which, again, is not true for the whole pro-life community, but a contradiction in the right-wing platform as a whole)



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

I never vote, they all bad at something.



I don't know.



I like free association and property rights. About it, really. Anything that conflicts with those is bad in my books.

It depends on who I'm talking to, and what about, they are usually the ones who give me a label.. I've been called everything from a hippy, to a neoconfederate, to a capitalist pig, to "left of Obama".

Typically, I'd say that I was an anarcho-capitalist, but left anarchists get pissy over semantics.

I don't agree with voting, I believe that the models described by the ideas of cryptoanarchy and agorism are far more effective means of living in the world that I want to live in.



As far as the US is concerned, my political affiliation is irrelevant, as it's painfully obvious that whatever I think, feel, know etc... has no bearing on what an elected official will do.